Foma Reversal Kit - Longevity of concetrates.

dmtnkl · Apr 7, 2021

I am currently looking into buying the Foma Reversal kit and use it with a few Foma R100 rolls over an extended period of time.

In the case of Tetenal's E6 kit, i was advised to take special care of FD, CD2 and BX2 concetrates after opening the sealed bottles. Therefore i split them up and put them in smaller bottles that were filled to the rim (with the help of some small glass marbles) in order to prevent degradation due to oxidization.

Does anyone have experience with Foma's reversal kit? Should i store the concetrates after opening the sealed bottles in a particular way with extra care to prevent oxidation or some other kind of degradation? Usage period will probably extend to about a year.

mohmad khatab · Apr 7, 2021

dmtnkl said:
I am currently looking into buying the Foma Reversal kit and use it with a few Foma R100 rolls over an extended period of time.

In the case of Tetenal's E6 kit, i was advised to take special care of FD, CD2 and BX2 concetrates after opening the sealed bottles. Therefore i split them up and put them in smaller bottles that were filled to the rim (with the help of some small glass marbles) in order to prevent degradation due to oxidization.

Does anyone have experience with Foma's reversal kit? Should i store the concetrates after opening the sealed bottles in a particular way with extra care to prevent oxidation or some other kind of degradation? Usage period will probably extend to about a year.

I recommend you to prepare this kit yourself from scratch to save your money.
If you have chemicals you should bring this kit from scratch.
I can help you give you a formula that has been tried on my own and hit with most movie genres and categories.
Trust me if you want ,,

YoIaMoNwater · Apr 7, 2021

Your problem will be with the bleach as permanganate does keep well. @Alessandro Serrao suggested to add sodium hexametaphosphate to the permanganate bleach mixture to increase its shelf life (I've never tried this since the mixed bleach is better to be used as a one-shot). It's probably better to do many rolls in a short period of time than few rolls over an extended period.

dmtnkl · Apr 7, 2021

I was mostly wondering about the shelf life of the unmixed concetrates after opening the original bottles.

YoIaMoNwater · Apr 7, 2021

Probably not good once permanganate is exposed to oxygen. I've made stock solutions before but they turned into solid manganese dioxide in less than a month. I'm not sure if Foma's kit has sodium hexametaphosphate in it, but I don't think it'll last up to a year. @Lachlan Young @Raghu Kuvempunagar @Rudeofus can probably provide better tips.

Wallendo · Apr 7, 2021

Check out this page:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/film-ferrania-p30.146259/page-34#post-2334753
One user reports that the kit worked after being open 4 years.

Lachlan Young · Apr 7, 2021

Unless Foma have changed it, the acid & permanganate are mixed just before use - the idea of the use of the hexametaphosphate is to extend the life/ capacity of acidified permanganate bleach beyond a short single-shot window so it can be used in higher thoughput processes, replenished etc.

mohmad khatab · Apr 7, 2021

This is the best reliable and tested recipe from the patented Agfa
Personally, I used it for 2 months, and it was excellent, but I was keeping bleach in the fridge.
- The surprising thing is that this solution is very safe on the emulsifier and does not attack the emulsifier at all, and its results are more than wonderful.

Rudeofus · Apr 8, 2021

When permanganate oxidizes metallic silver, lower oxidation products of manganese are formed, some of which are very colorful and very insoluble. Hexametaphosphate sequesters these manganese ions and thereby prevents brown stains. This may extend the useful life of this bleach, but I am not sure, whether it actually stabilizes the permanganate.

I wonder, why no one has created a b&w reversal bleach based on ferricyanide so far ...

dmtnkl · Apr 30, 2021

I got my first results using the kit with Fomapan 100 R. It looks really nice.

Unfortunately, i was not aware of how soft/brittle the emulsion becomes through the process and i scratched it in the end. Should have handled it with much more care. Never had such an issue while developing Fuji's E6 films. I guess the explanation is that these emulsions are much more hardened?

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 30, 2021

Does the Foma kit use permanganate bleach? If yes then it could be the cause for softening and scratches. Permanganate bleach requires care with temperature and agitation.

On a different note, do the slides have the tint in reality that the pic you shared has?

dmtnkl · May 2, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
On a different note, do the slides have the tint in reality that the pic you shared has?

The "scan" i made with my phone greatly exagerates the tint.

I would say that the darker frames have an olive tint to them. The brighter ones look more grey.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · May 3, 2021

dmtnkl said:
The "scan" i made with my phone greatly exagerates the tint.

I would say that the darker frames have an olive tint to them. The brighter ones look more grey.

Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering if the tint was due to insufficient clearing after the bleach but if it's density wise stain then it's probably a characteristic of the film. I hope
you don't find the olive tint unpleasant.

Coming back to scratches, you might want to make sure that there's not a significant change in temperature throughout the reversal process and your agitation is very gentle during the bleaching stage. Also avoid wiping the film with either wet fingers or squeezy.

DeletedAcct1 · May 3, 2021

dmtnkl said:
I am currently looking into buying the Foma Reversal kit and use it with a few Foma R100 rolls over an extended period of time.

In the case of Tetenal's E6 kit, i was advised to take special care of FD, CD2 and BX2 concetrates after opening the sealed bottles. Therefore i split them up and put them in smaller bottles that were filled to the rim (with the help of some small glass marbles) in order to prevent degradation due to oxidization.

Does anyone have experience with Foma's reversal kit? Should i store the concetrates after opening the sealed bottles in a particular way with extra care to prevent oxidation or some other kind of degradation? Usage period will probably extend to about a year.

Hi,
I would not add any hexametaphosphate to the Foma kit. This kit is absolutely wonderful at yielding such great slides that if you try to tweak it you'll ruin it.
Don't be afraid: the concentrates last a very long time, much more that 1 year if you try to squirt some Tetenal Protectant or similar into the bottles after you have first opened them.
Absolutely repeatable results.
Don't waste your hard-earned money on diy concotions: they will never work like the Foma kit.
Regards.

dmtnkl · May 23, 2021

@Alessandro Serrao Have you tried developing any 120 film with this kit?

DeletedAcct1 · May 17, 2023

dmtnkl said:
@Alessandro Serrao Have you tried developing any 120 film with this kit?

Unfortunately not.

Foma Reversal Kit - Longevity of concetrates.

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