foldable / non foldable. shen hao / horsman

hi everyone,
I am on theverge of buying a 4x5 field
camera. Since money is a facot I van been looking into a shen hao.

I want to know how everyone here feels about the folding version vs. the nonfolding one. off course setup time is nice, but can't one keep a foldng 4x5 camaera in non folding mode easily too?

On ebay a few horseman;s are for sale... they are non folding, so is the shen hao that is foldable favourable...

please post you thuoghts. thanks game

I think potentially the non-folding version might be lighter. However, the biggest limit is that the non-folder is better with shorter lenses.

You could carry the folding HZX45-AII around not folded. I sometimes do that when moving from one location spot to another that is somewhat close. The advantage of folding is that it takes little room to pack into a backpack or bag.

There is a bigger differences in movements on the cameras. There is also a difference in which lenses you want to use, which affects choice of camera.

If you want to shoot fast with 4x5, then try to find a used Crown Graphic. This would be very fast set-up, and quick to take a shot. The downside is a lack of movements. Once you start using tilt, shift, rise or fall movements, then set-up time is very little compared to actually taking a photo.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

game said:

hi everyone,
I am on theverge of buying a 4x5 field
camera. Since money is a facot I van been looking into a shen hao.

I want to know how everyone here feels about the folding version vs. the nonfolding one. off course setup time is nice, but can't one keep a foldng 4x5 camaera in non folding mode easily too?

On ebay a few horseman;s are for sale... they are non folding, so is the shen hao that is foldable favourable...

please post you thuoghts. thanks game

Click to expand...

game,
How is this question different from this

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

question?


tim in san jose

..

sorry guys, but I simply came to new insights, is that such a bad thing?
I at frst wanted a simple foldable cheap camera, but that does not exist.
(presscams are too limited, b&j too sloppy)
So I decided a shen hao is the next step. Still relativally cheap, but better.
Now I am doubting if I should buy the foldable or non foldable version.
If I should go for foldable, then some horsemans are up for sale on ebay for around 600 euro. That seems cheap.
Horseman 45 woodman is a better camera I think, maybe someone can elaborate on that?
anyhow, non foldable seems interesting because of the faster setup. on the other hand, if one can leave a foldable camera non folded without too much trouble, then a folder seems to become intersting...
I will use a case that now holds a complete pentax 67 including 3 lenses. If the foldable fits that case folded out..
So what I would like to know, is it doable to leave the foldable shen hao 4x5 folded out is it much bigger than the unfoldable folded out?
And what lens is the maximum for the nonfolder with standard bellows?
If that really is 190 as the website sepcifies that means you can not even use a small tele lens.
I have to able to put in 127mm till 240 mm...
Which one has more movements?

So in short: quite some doubts and question. sumarized:

Should I buy the foldable or non-foldable shen hao 4x5?
and if the answer is fodable, can I not better go for horseman woodman 45?


hopefully someone is willing to give me slight insight here...
thanks Game

Do you need/want a wide angle camera? If so buy the non-folder. If you want a general purpose camera then don't.

you're right I guess.
having 180mm in 4x5 as the longest focal length seems no good idea.
I just loved the non folding idea ...
I guess, if can leave the foldable version unfolded too.

thanks for bringing me to my senses, my mouse was on the buy now button

game

You will simply have to write down the pros and cons of each and base it on what you need and not want it to do. There is no one perfect setup for everything, you have to decide on what and how you will be using it.

For a general purpose field camera the Shen Hao 4x5 will do just fine. I bought one because it is lighter than my 5x7 and I can use it to fill the gap, sometimes a 4x5 field camera is the choice. I'll take it to the beach and local places. The price was very reasonable for a 4x field camera. It would be very easy to make a back extension or a lens board extension for it. A back extension could add a lot of extension to it. Even the Dorfs had rear extensions that you could add on for those longer lenses.

I have a 210 Schneider on mine and it is perfect with plenty of bellows. 8 1/4" lens.

Curt do you have the normal Shen 4x5? Or the non-folder?

http://www.shen-hao.com/E45.html

He's asking about the Shenhao TFC45. I can't imagine people wanting to use that for anything but wide angle work. Bellows range is 50-190mm.

If you need to use a 240 non-Telephoto, then you NEED the HZX (folding) model. Folding/unfolding it to take it out of your pack and put it on the tripod takes very little time at all, maybe only 30 seconds. Once it is on the tripod and you have the lens mounted, you can leave it that way. The Shen Hao is a great little camera - I have had mine for six years without any problems at all. If you have a very small lens, you can even leave that lens installed on the camera when it is closed ( I have a 4 3/8" W.A. Dagor that fits on mine when the camera is folded shut).

I've had my Shen Hao for a number of years now (5 or 6?) and am very pleased with it. It is the folding version and I couldn't make do with a 190mm bellows on a field camera. The lenses I use are fom 90mm to 240mm, so there just isn't a reason for me to consider anything less. The setup time with a field camera in large format is something you will have to learn about by using the camera. As FC said in the previous post, there are some smaller lenses which will fit the camera and stay in place when the camera is closed. I have an old 203mm Kodak ektar which is very small and will allow the camera to close when the lens is in place.

If you don't need movements or a long lens, an old Crown Graphic would be an excellent choice to work with because it is so fast and easy to use. But, if you will need full movements (and sooner or later you probably will), a longer lens and are going into 4x5 for the first time, the longer bellows is what you will want at some point. It would also be easier to sell if you decide 4x5 isn't right for you. Good luck, tim

One work-around for using a longer lens on the non-folding camera would be an extension lensboard. Unfortunately, that puts lots of weight at the front of the camera, and it restricts the full range of possible movements. If you really want to use a 200mm or longer lens, then avoid the non-folding camera.

Set-up time is something you need to practice. I doubt there would be more than 10 seconds difference between folding and non-folding after practicing set-up several times.

You can leave an HZX45A-II unfolded, though it will be taller and take up more room in a camera bag. Remember that to use longer lenses than the non-folding camera, the bed of the camera is longer.

If you want something very compact, or maybe have something built specifically for you, then look into getting an Argentum. There is very little information on these, but they seem to be well made. There are a few choices in construction. Probably not as versatile as a Shen-Hao, but if the specifications seem to meet your needs, this might be an alternative.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

ok, then a question regarding size:

what's the smallest dimension of the foldable shen hao if you leave it folded out?

thanks! game

I just pulled out mine and I timed myself to unfold it and flip the reversed 150mm lens that stays on the camera when folded.

I took 18 seconds, if you find that a problem then I don't know what to say.

The dimensions in a minimum configuration are:-

Width, including the knobs 210mm

Length, 202mm

Height, 228m not including the carry strap.

By the way Scott, the serial number on my unit is 51,466 and I believe the camera is about 2 years old. That is an impressive amount of cameras sold since you purchased yours, especially if their numbering system is continuous.

Mick.

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=120

Mine folds and it folds with a Schneider 150mm in a Copal shutter inside it. It is new and has a level on the top of the back standard.

Wow . . . 18 seconds. That's really quite good. I slowed down mine by making an exotic woods ground glass protector, which adds a few seconds.

The serial numbers and production might be tough to figure out. These could have been ordered by the reseller, then sat on a shelf until sold. I got my HZX45A-II in January 2006 from Badger Graphic Sales. Mine is 51621.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

I'll look at mine when I get home today, but I'm pretty sure it is 2xx. I'll look it over and see what it says- the 5 on the front of the serial number may be an artificial construct, as I doubt they've sold 50,000 of them, even in seven or eight years of manufacture.

IIRC somebody asked them about the serial numbers. I don't think they have any real relation to sales. It was something like different numbers for different models.

Mine was bought as far as I know in 1984 or 1985 and definitely from Badger as well, so Gordon's camera number in line with his purchase date, is still an impressive number of cameras!

Mine also has the bullet type bubble level, recessed into the top of the rear standard

I agree with Nick in that the first number may be the model number, possibly the 5 represents the 4x5 or 5x4 designation. That said, my actual serial number is 051466, interesting, eh?

Mick.

With the added back extension and the front extension, provided with the camera, you go beyond vertical and lock the standards in, I measured a total bellows extension of 16 inches. This is with the stock camera movements, no extra addons. I knew the front could be extended but with the back extended it gives some good extension.

Curt