Fogged paper - questions

Rob Archer · May 20, 2006

I've been given several unopened. boxes of paper -Kodak Polymax, Agfa Brovira-Speed, and Agfa Record Rapid. All the Kodak and the Brovira are quite badly fogged. The Record Rapid is not fogged at all (which is great as it's lovely paper!) The fogging is even across the paper and all sheets have the same degree of fogging. With the Brovira it's not too bad and I've done a few reasonable prints by bleaching back the prints to get the whites white. I understand the paper was stored in a garage so I suspect some component of vehicle exhaust to be to blame. I'm not too bothered as I didn't pay for it but I'd like to know:

1) What is likely to have caused the fogging?

2) Is there anything I can do (other than bleaching) to clear the fog?

Rob

RalphLambrecht · May 20, 2006

Rob

This paper is not just fogged, but it's old, which means it has lost speed and contrast to unknown degree. For heaven's sake, through it out and get some fresh paper. The headache ain't worth it. You'll have nothing but trouble with this old paper.

Cheap paper is way too expensive for me!

removed account4 · May 20, 2006

rob:

fogged paper is great for paper negatives and as for the final print (from a paper negative.) straight paper negatives are typ. contrasty, and if you have foggy paper to begin with, it makes things easier

sounds like fun!

john

RalphLambrecht · May 20, 2006

Use a yellow filter to make paper negatives. That controls the contrast. Paper doesn't have the same exposure range as film, otherwise.

No need to use fogged and outdated materials, which might bring other problems. As with normal negatives, I think you want them to last for a while.

Mark Layne · May 20, 2006

It may lith print with no fog at all
Mark

removed account4 · May 20, 2006

whoops!

forgot to add YMMV

-john

Ray Heath · May 20, 2006

g'day Rob
though i agree with all the replies and yes there are problems in using suspect materials, be creative, use this paper for projects other than your normal printing

overexpose and heavily bleach

grossly over bleach in sepia bleach then tone as normal

print light, and or dark, and heavily tone/stain with various products, coffee, tea, vegetable dye, ink, water colour paint, ???

print light, trace the main lines of the image with fast drying ink, such as an overhead projector pen, then bleach all the image to leave a line drawing

make a pinhole camera, I have succesfully used very old Ilfobrom in a simple lens camera to create beautiful negatives

make photograms

place a sheet under an object in a contact printing frame, or sheet of glass and backing board, grossly over expose in bright sun until paper darkens, then fix only and wash (i.e. printing out with normal rather than POP paper)

come on, find a use, be creative, post your results

Rob Archer · May 21, 2006

Thanks all!

Whilst I certainly don't intend to use it for anything critical, my Northern British extraction makes if very difficult to throw away 9 free boxes of paper! Sadly the Kodak is really too far gone to be used, and I'll take Ralph's advice, but the Record Rapid is fine although it's probably lost a grade in contrast. I'll post some results as soon as I can get my scanner to work again.

Rob

Rob Archer · May 21, 2006

.....and I'd still like to know what caused the fogging in the first place!

Rob

Dave Miller · May 21, 2006

RalphLambrecht said:
Rob

This paper is not just fogged, but it's old, which means it has lost speed and contrast to unknown degree. For heaven's sake, through it out and get some fresh paper. The headache ain't worth it. You'll have nothing but trouble with this old paper.

Cheap paper is way too expensive for me!

Take note Rob; what Ralph don't know about this game 'ain't worth knowing.

As for paper fogging causes:
Excessive heat, and age are the most probable causes. Exhaust fumes are unlikely to penetrate the plastic bag.

Give it to the kids, they can have fun with it making sun prints.

RalphLambrecht · May 21, 2006

I believe the hesitance of throwing it away is the main reason why old materials gets passed around. For some reason, people feel more comfortable to pass it on than to throw it away (warm fuzzy feeling in the stomach rather then guilty conscience). For that reason, I think it might actually be selfish to pass it on and not throw it out. So for now, you are the guardian of this paper, stuck with the assignment of finding a use for it. Just pass it on and delegate the job to someone else to continue the trend. When it gets to me. I'll throw it out and break the cycle.

RalphLambrecht · May 21, 2006

Dave

I don't think that's true. There is just too much I don't know (yet).

But, using outdated and, therefore, unreliable materials to introduce kids to this wonderful hobby or ours, is the best idea I heard so far. I wish, I would have thought of that.

Dave Miller · May 21, 2006

RalphLambrecht said:
Dave

I don't think that's true. There is just too much I don't know (yet).

But, using outdated and, therefore, unreliable materials to introduce kids to this wonderful hobby or ours, is the best idea I heard so far. I wish, I would have thought of that.

How do you know that you don't know?

RalphLambrecht · May 21, 2006

Dave

To me there are four levels of knowledge. Here they are, from the bottom up:

1. Unconscious Incompetence
If I don't even know that I don't know.
2. Conscious Incompetence
I know, I'm missing something but don't know what it is.
3. Unconscious Competence
I know how it works but don't know why.
4. Conscious Competence
I know how and why something works.

Depending on the subject, I have experience at all levels.

removed account4 · May 21, 2006

Rob Archer said:
.....and I'd still like to know what caused the fogging in the first place!

Rob

i think could be a handful of reasons.
i have even heard the term "cosmic rays" as a suggestion
as to why film and paper go bad, even in a freezer.

-john

Ole · May 21, 2006

RalphLambrecht said:
Use a yellow filter to make paper negatives. That controls the contrast. Paper doesn't have the same exposure range as film, otherwise.

Would that work with graded paper too, or would it just work as a "safelight"?

RalphLambrecht · May 21, 2006

Ole

I have not tried but it should help to 'kill' the oversensitivity to blue even in graded papers.

Fogged paper - questions

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