fogged paper for sure??

plus · Apr 29, 2011

Hi there!

yesterday I opened again after years (5 years I guess more or less) a 50 sheets pack of ilford portfolio paper.
I got a fogged print. OK lets try another sheet of the same 12x16" pack. FOGGED AGAIN and in the same long side 16" edge!! And the same for the third sheet...
my question: does it make sense that fog is always the same place on every sheet of this pack? Developer is ok, lenses are ok. So, is it really fogged paper?? Second, as long as the fogging process seems to be at low levels for now (just a small area near the edge of one of the two long sides) can I do something to minimize it? something like adding sodium bromide or benzotriazole to my developer for example....

details:
35 mm tri-x
rodagon 50mm f2.8
"old" ilford portfolio 12x16"
durst m805 diffuser color head
eukibrom developer 1+9 diluition
both trays dev process and jobo cpa2

thanx for your help!

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 29, 2011

Turn off all lights in your darkroom. Put an unexposed piece of paper in the developer tray and develop it for your normal time.

Stop bath. Fix as normal. If the paper comes out with fog on it, then yes it's the paper.

If the paper comes out clear, then it could be your safelight or something else.

largely · Apr 29, 2011

Try benzotriazole. Might help. If not it''l still allow 10x15. That's full frame from 35mm.
Good luck,

Larry

plus · Apr 29, 2011

thanx thomas thanx larry.
Well, I had no time today to do that test but obviously I will do shortly.
I find weird that same "fog position" on the sheet, it's always the same place all along the side edge....

larry, what about the benzotriazole addition amount into the developer?

cheers!

MattKing · Apr 29, 2011

Fog can be affected by how the paper was stored. If the box was stored on it's side, one edge of the paper may have been pushed down into the inner bag by gravity.

pentaxuser · Apr 29, 2011

When you say "fogged" can you describe it. Is it an almost black streak or are you talking about a light grey veil. If one edge is black this suggests that at some stage the edge was exposed to white light but it didn't penetrate far into the paper because the paper is compressed so prevents light entering very far.

If it is white light fogging then no amount of benzo will have any effect. All you can do is cut off the black edges and make your border smaller.

pentaxuser

plus · Apr 30, 2011

pentaxuser said:
When you say "fogged" can you describe it. Is it an almost black streak or are you talking about a light grey veil. If one edge is black this suggests that at some stage the edge was exposed to white light but it didn't penetrate far into the paper because the paper is compressed so prevents light entering very far.

If it is white light fogging then no amount of benzo will have any effect. All you can do is cut off the black edges and make your border smaller.

pentaxuser

I guess I will scan an example for you all 'cause it's not that easy to describe the issue by words...the side affected is, how I can say, much more faded and pale than the rest of the print. ...it seems like had less developer agent than the right part but the developer is certainly good and I developed by tray using a bigger amount than usual (just to be sure)...

more later with an example scan.
thanx for now guys

plus · Apr 30, 2011

Here is the mistery issue image! cropped but the up and left borders are ok.... your ideas are welcome...

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 30, 2011

Did you develop a blank sheet in the dark yet?

MattKing · Apr 30, 2011

Fogged paper is darker than unfogged paper - not lighter.

Your problem is elsewhere.

I'd check the light path in the enlarger.

pentaxuser · Apr 30, 2011

Sounds stupid I know but you have checked that the neg is OK and the print isn't simply replicating the fault on the neg. if there is any chance that the neg may be at fault then try another neg which you know to print well and see what happens.

pentaxuser

plus · Apr 30, 2011

thomas: not yet unfortunately...my darkroom is not at home.
pentaxuser: unfortunately the neg is ok, great density and very good grain even if it's 800 asa tri-x and no fog obviously.

I must add that lastly I made a lot of E6 and ilfochrome printing...what about fumes breaking the paper layers? I guess I must use this paper just for testing printing exposures and buy some new...

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 30, 2011

Based on how the prints look, and assuming that the negatives are OK, it's either your paper or the enlarger. It would make sense to try a different box of fresh paper. If you still get the same problem, you know where the problem lies.

cmacd123 · May 1, 2011

The "light" areas are a bit strange, It is almost like the ppaer has become desensitised. Be interesting to cut a strip from the side where you have the effect and give it an exposure with no negative - followed by normal developing. If the area is still Light, then you can perhaps salvage some value by just cutting off the damaged edges and using the rest of the sheet.

plus · May 2, 2011

Hey guys!

I made the unexposed paper test and the sheet came out completely WHITE!! So, IT'S NOT FOGGED...I didn't make the BTZ addition 'cause it's useless I guess. I checked glass in the carrier, clean! I checked the dichroic head and nothing wrong apparently....

I tried another pack of paper (2 years old kentmere vc, do not look at the darker shadows 'cause I didn't tune the exposure for a different paper) this time and the effect is much less evident; considering I'm printing ONLY ILFOCHROME in the last 2 years there must be something about bleach and ilfochrome chemicals, otherwise it's REALLY A MISTERY

Thomas Bertilsson · May 2, 2011

Thanks for making the print to give us a view of your problem. It seems that you have some issues that can be hard to diagnose.

My recommendation:
1. Focus your enlarger on the enlarger base board. Do not use an easel.
2. Take TWO pieces of paper and place them side by side. (If you use 8x10" paper, you get 16x10" from both).
3. Print on BOTH pieces of paper during the same exposure, so that the enlarger exposure is exposing both pieces of paper at the same time.
4. Develop both pieces of paper at the same time.

If the problem you are seeing is still in the same place, at the bottom of the picture, you know the paper is fine, and it's likely a film developing problem or an enlarger setup issue.
If the same 'edges' of the two pieces of paper are still unevenly developed, it is definitely the paper. See attachment.

plus · May 2, 2011

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Thanks for making the print to give us a view of your problem. It seems that you have some issues that can be hard to diagnose.

My recommendation:
1. Focus your enlarger on the enlarger base board. Do not use an easel.
2. Take TWO pieces of paper and place them side by side. (If you use 8x10" paper, you get 16x10" from both).
3. Print on BOTH pieces of paper during the same exposure, so that the enlarger exposure is exposing both pieces of paper at the same time.
4. Develop both pieces of paper at the same time.

If the problem you are seeing is still in the same place, at the bottom of the picture, you know the paper is fine, and it's likely a film developing problem or an enlarger setup issue.
If the same 'edges' of the two pieces of paper are still unevenly developed, it is definitely the paper. See attachment.

Oh my god Thomas, what the hell brilliant and same time simple idea !! thanx so much I will try for sure and let you know!!

jordanstarr · May 2, 2011

I had some paper come out like that, turns out it was a bad emulsion on about 4 8x10 sheets in a row, but the rest of the paper was good. It looks like the bottom part isn't burning in, so I would guess bad emulsion or uneven light source. It's best just to tackle it one step at a time and test everything until you find the source. Best to start with the paper though and test it.

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