Focusing a 6x7 lens on 4x5 Crown Graphic

campy51 · Dec 2, 2022

I have a chance on purchasing a Planar 80mm f2.8 lens for cheap money to use with a 6x9 roll film holder or get a 6x7 back. Any suggestions on focusing without having to use GG and swapping over to roll back? Is the lens worth the hassle?

BrianShaw · Dec 2, 2022

Probably not worth the effort, if it works out like the time I tried doing that. I have a 75 or 80 with shutter from an old TLR that I tried on an Anniversary Graphic. To even get infinity focus the lens board needs to be pulled back so close to the film plane that its nearly impossible to accomplish. Other than GG focusing... I don't think possible. But if the deal is that good, you can buy and try for yourself; it might be a bit of fun experimentation.

Donald Qualls · Dec 2, 2022

On a 4x5 Crown, you may be somewhat ahead of the situation compared to using a 75-80 mm triplet or Tessar type from a TLR -- you're ahead because the 80 mm Planar, if made for an SLR, is likely retrofocus.

As an example of this, all of the lenses for RB67 mount expect 112 mm from flange to film, whether the lens is 50 mm or 360 mm, so if you can use a 105 mm from a 6x9 folder (which I can on my Anniversary Speed and you ought to be able to on any Crown), you can use any of these lenses (with the adapter, once converted for the correct lens board size).

That said, you can't calibrate an RF for one and expect it to work with another. You could calibrate the RF for any individual lens, but the movement to focus is different for an 80 mm as opposed to, say, a 150 mm. For that single 80 mm Planar, however, if you can mount it to a lens board and operate the shutter, you should then be able to calibrate a (side mounted Kalart) rangefinder for it and shoot like Weejee.

xkaes · Dec 2, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
As an example of this, all of the lenses for RB67 mount expect 112 mm from flange to film, whether the lens is 50 mm or 360 mm, ...

Add to that the RB67 37mm fisheye. I don't know how they accomplished it, but I'm glad they did.

Donald Qualls · Dec 2, 2022

xkaes said:
Add to that the RB67 37mm fisheye. I don't know how they accomplished it, but I'm glad they did.

A 37 mm on the RB67 is comparable to an 18 mm or so on a 35mm SLR -- which are fairly common (nearly every system has a fisheye close to that length if not a little shorter). Retrofocus is magic anyway, using it for super-short lenses isn't any more magical. Part of the magic seems to be having a "normal" focal length lens with a front converter built in. I can put a 0.45x filter ring converter on my 50 mm and get a 22.5 mm rectilinear, still with 112 mm flange distance. The converter was about $40; I'll never own the $3000+ 37 mm fisheye.

For OP this is very good, though I wouldn't be confident of a Hasselblad 80 mm lens covering 6x9 (it ought to be okay on 6x7, though).

ic-racer · Dec 2, 2022

Do you have a the adjustable rangefinder?

Donald Qualls · Dec 2, 2022

ic-racer said:
Do you have a the adjustable rangefinder?

Also worth checking what system the Planar is for -- IIRC they were sold for 'Blad, but also in Pentacon 66/Kiev 88 mount. The latter don't have an internal shutter, and the Hasselblad mount version may not have a shutter you can operate with the lens mounted on a Crown (controls are in the mount, no?).

campy51 · Dec 2, 2022

It's in a shutter and probably came from Graflex XL.

campy51 · Dec 2, 2022

BrianShaw · Dec 2, 2022

campy51 said:
It's in a shutter and probably came from Graflex XL.

That's a rather thin camera. You might have better success than me since the Crown is thinner than the Anniversary. Personally... if the price is really good I'd try it.

Or, look around for an affordable 90. I found a Schneider SA f/5.6 90 for cheap (dented filter ring but that's not much of an impediment) and use it for the purpose you are describing.

Donald Qualls · Dec 2, 2022

BrianShaw said:
Or, look around for an affordable 90.

Or look around for an inexpensive Century or 2x3 Crown. Graflex 22, 23, RH12, RH10 and RH8 roll holders for 2x3 Graflok aren't hard to find or very expensive, and as a bonus they'll work with other cameras (RB67 and at least one of the Mamiya rangefinder medium format cameras, though I forget which model -- Super 23, Mamiya Press, etc.). I've got a Century with Kalart that came with RH10 and a 101 Ektar in shutter for around $150 within the past year.

For a 4x5, you might also be able to get a recessed lens board and angled cable release to be able to use that lens -- if you can get infinity focus, you can then adjust a Kalart rangefinder (anything longer than 65 mm, as I recall).

ags2mikon · Dec 2, 2022

If from a Graflex XL it covers 6x7, not 6x9. As per Graflex. I have tried it on 6x9 and the corners were soft. The 100mm planar works good on 6x9.

xkaes · Dec 2, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
I'll never own the $3000+ 37 mm fisheye.

The going rate on EBAY is around $1,000. I got might for much less than that -- but that was a while ago. I'll have to pull it out in the Spring -- pandemics put a damper on a lot of things -- and anyway, Winters are a good time for darkroom work.

Bob S · Dec 2, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Also worth checking what system the Planar is for -- IIRC they were sold for 'Blad, but also in Pentacon 66/Kiev 88 mount. The latter don't have an internal shutter, and the Hasselblad mount version may not have a shutter you can operate with the lens mounted on a Crown (controls are in the mount, no?).

And they were on Rollei TLRs, SL66 and SLX/6xxx systems.

gone · Dec 2, 2022

My guess is that it came from a TLR (looking at the pic), and you would never get close to achieving infinity on your 4x5 camera. Even a 90 on those is tough to get infinity. But, if you can find a way to use it in some fashion on a camera more suitable, that's a really good lens.

Dan Fromm · Dec 2, 2022

Sheesh several times over.

The 4x5 Crown Graphic's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm.

Planars are not retrofocus. If anything, they're slightly telephoto.

As the OP stated in post #9 above the lens in question (his, not any old 80/2.8 Planar) is from a Graflex XL.

According to Arne Croell (http://www.arnecroell.com/ zeissoberkochen.pdf) it covers 100 mm, i.e., will cover 2x3 (=6x9) without movements.

OP, you'll likely have to focus on the GG.

otto.f · Dec 3, 2022

Here’s a well succeeded example of such an adventure, sort of:

Large Format Landscapes - Page 1640

Ok then. Im waiting for the arrival of my first large format camera. Really looking forward to getting it, and then getting out into the landscape with it. But in the meantime I was just wandering if people could post up some of there favorite landscape shot on LF. Be it a large sweeping vista...

www.largeformatphotography.info

campy51 · Dec 3, 2022

I don't know if it's from a Graflex but I have read that their lenses can be removed from the focusing mount.

OAPOli · Dec 3, 2022

I could be done. You can find M65 hardware (flange mount, helicoid, shutter mount) and attach the lens to a lens board. Then you can compute or determine a focus scale and stick it on the helicoid. Collimate the lens to the film back and use an external rangefinder. Happy to help with further details.

I'm curious about the Planar. Is it 6 or 7 element? What is the back focus distance?

BrianShaw · Dec 3, 2022

Dan Fromm said:
Sheesh several times over.

The 4x5 Crown Graphic's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm.

Planars are not retrofocus. If anything, they're slightly telephoto.

As the OP stated in post #9 above the lens in question (his, not any old 80/2.8 Planar) is from a Graflex XL.

According to Arne Croell (http://www.arnecroell.com/ zeissoberkochen.pdf) it covers 100 mm, i.e., will cover 2x3 (=6x9) without movements.

OP, you'll likely have to focus on the GG.

Great clarification. One more thing… there were no recessed lens boards made for Crown Graphics.

campy51 · Dec 3, 2022

Is it worth it for $135, but looks like it will need a self cleaning which I have done before. I wouldn't send it out for a cleaning.

Dan Fromm · Dec 3, 2022

campy51 said:
I don't know if it's from a Graflex but I have read that their lenses can be removed from the focusing mount.

Yes, absolutely. I use an ex-Graflex XL on my 2x3 cameras.

Whether the lens is worth $135 is up to you. You'll have a hard time finding one for less, but if it doesn't fit your needs then it would be hard to justify at any price.

The first law of used lenses in shutter is that the shutter needs a CLA.

BrianShaw · Dec 3, 2022

campy51 said:
Is it worth it for $135, but looks like it will need a self cleaning which I have done before. I wouldn't send it out for a cleaning.

Unless the $135 is needed for life essentials, I'd buy it to try. Might be a great solution to your desired intent. The synchro-Compur isn't the easiest to DIY repair without experience but not impossible. If you've done one before it shouldn't be a problem.

Ian Grant · Dec 3, 2022

campy51 said:
Is it worth it for $135, but looks like it will need a self cleaning which I have done before. I wouldn't send it out for a cleaning.

Yes, it should be worth it. However on a Crown Graphic it's wasted, go down Dan Fromm's route and use it on a more appropriate camera where you can at least use front tilt and a touch of rise and fall to stay in the image circle. It's just not the right lens for a 5x4 Pacemaker Graphic.

Ian

Focusing a 6x7 lens on 4x5 Crown Graphic

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