Focusing a 6x7 lens on 4x5 Crown Graphic

Curved Wall

A
Curved Wall

  • 3
  • 0
  • 60
Crossing beams

A
Crossing beams

  • 9
  • 1
  • 79
Shadow 2

A
Shadow 2

  • 3
  • 0
  • 57
Shadow 1

A
Shadow 1

  • 3
  • 0
  • 55
Darkroom c1972

A
Darkroom c1972

  • 3
  • 2
  • 102

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,837
Messages
2,781,623
Members
99,722
Latest member
Backfocus
Recent bookmarks
0

campy51

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
1,215
Location
Boston area USA
Format
Multi Format
I have a chance on purchasing a Planar 80mm f2.8 lens for cheap money to use with a 6x9 roll film holder or get a 6x7 back. Any suggestions on focusing without having to use GG and swapping over to roll back? Is the lens worth the hassle?
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,530
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
Probably not worth the effort, if it works out like the time I tried doing that. I have a 75 or 80 with shutter from an old TLR that I tried on an Anniversary Graphic. To even get infinity focus the lens board needs to be pulled back so close to the film plane that its nearly impossible to accomplish. Other than GG focusing... I don't think possible. But if the deal is that good, you can buy and try for yourself; it might be a bit of fun experimentation.
 

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,295
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
On a 4x5 Crown, you may be somewhat ahead of the situation compared to using a 75-80 mm triplet or Tessar type from a TLR -- you're ahead because the 80 mm Planar, if made for an SLR, is likely retrofocus.

As an example of this, all of the lenses for RB67 mount expect 112 mm from flange to film, whether the lens is 50 mm or 360 mm, so if you can use a 105 mm from a 6x9 folder (which I can on my Anniversary Speed and you ought to be able to on any Crown), you can use any of these lenses (with the adapter, once converted for the correct lens board size).

That said, you can't calibrate an RF for one and expect it to work with another. You could calibrate the RF for any individual lens, but the movement to focus is different for an 80 mm as opposed to, say, a 150 mm. For that single 80 mm Planar, however, if you can mount it to a lens board and operate the shutter, you should then be able to calibrate a (side mounted Kalart) rangefinder for it and shoot like Weejee.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,791
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
As an example of this, all of the lenses for RB67 mount expect 112 mm from flange to film, whether the lens is 50 mm or 360 mm, ...

Add to that the RB67 37mm fisheye. I don't know how they accomplished it, but I'm glad they did.
 

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,295
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Add to that the RB67 37mm fisheye. I don't know how they accomplished it, but I'm glad they did.

A 37 mm on the RB67 is comparable to an 18 mm or so on a 35mm SLR -- which are fairly common (nearly every system has a fisheye close to that length if not a little shorter). Retrofocus is magic anyway, using it for super-short lenses isn't any more magical. Part of the magic seems to be having a "normal" focal length lens with a front converter built in. I can put a 0.45x filter ring converter on my 50 mm and get a 22.5 mm rectilinear, still with 112 mm flange distance. The converter was about $40; I'll never own the $3000+ 37 mm fisheye.

For OP this is very good, though I wouldn't be confident of a Hasselblad 80 mm lens covering 6x9 (it ought to be okay on 6x7, though).
 

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,295
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Do you have a the adjustable rangefinder?

Also worth checking what system the Planar is for -- IIRC they were sold for 'Blad, but also in Pentacon 66/Kiev 88 mount. The latter don't have an internal shutter, and the Hasselblad mount version may not have a shutter you can operate with the lens mounted on a Crown (controls are in the mount, no?).
 
OP
OP

campy51

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
1,215
Location
Boston area USA
Format
Multi Format
planar.jpg
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,530
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
It's in a shutter and probably came from Graflex XL.

That's a rather thin camera. You might have better success than me since the Crown is thinner than the Anniversary. Personally... if the price is really good I'd try it.

Or, look around for an affordable 90. I found a Schneider SA f/5.6 90 for cheap (dented filter ring but that's not much of an impediment) and use it for the purpose you are describing.
 
Last edited:

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,295
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Or, look around for an affordable 90.

Or look around for an inexpensive Century or 2x3 Crown. Graflex 22, 23, RH12, RH10 and RH8 roll holders for 2x3 Graflok aren't hard to find or very expensive, and as a bonus they'll work with other cameras (RB67 and at least one of the Mamiya rangefinder medium format cameras, though I forget which model -- Super 23, Mamiya Press, etc.). I've got a Century with Kalart that came with RH10 and a 101 Ektar in shutter for around $150 within the past year.

For a 4x5, you might also be able to get a recessed lens board and angled cable release to be able to use that lens -- if you can get infinity focus, you can then adjust a Kalart rangefinder (anything longer than 65 mm, as I recall).
 

ags2mikon

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
634
Location
New Mexico
Format
Multi Format
If from a Graflex XL it covers 6x7, not 6x9. As per Graflex. I have tried it on 6x9 and the corners were soft. The 100mm planar works good on 6x9.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,791
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
I'll never own the $3000+ 37 mm fisheye.

The going rate on EBAY is around $1,000. I got might for much less than that -- but that was a while ago. I'll have to pull it out in the Spring -- pandemics put a damper on a lot of things -- and anyway, Winters are a good time for darkroom work.
 

Bob S

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
392
Location
georgia
Format
Hybrid
Also worth checking what system the Planar is for -- IIRC they were sold for 'Blad, but also in Pentacon 66/Kiev 88 mount. The latter don't have an internal shutter, and the Hasselblad mount version may not have a shutter you can operate with the lens mounted on a Crown (controls are in the mount, no?).

And they were on Rollei TLRs, SL66 and SLX/6xxx systems.
 

gone

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
5,504
Location
gone
Format
Medium Format
My guess is that it came from a TLR (looking at the pic), and you would never get close to achieving infinity on your 4x5 camera. Even a 90 on those is tough to get infinity. But, if you can find a way to use it in some fashion on a camera more suitable, that's a really good lens.
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,823
Format
Multi Format
Sheesh several times over.

The 4x5 Crown Graphic's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm.

Planars are not retrofocus. If anything, they're slightly telephoto.

As the OP stated in post #9 above the lens in question (his, not any old 80/2.8 Planar) is from a Graflex XL.

According to Arne Croell (http://www.arnecroell.com/ zeissoberkochen.pdf) it covers 100 mm, i.e., will cover 2x3 (=6x9) without movements.

OP, you'll likely have to focus on the GG.
 

otto.f

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
352
Location
Netherlands
Format
Multi Format
Here’s a well succeeded example of such an adventure, sort of:
 
OP
OP

campy51

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
1,215
Location
Boston area USA
Format
Multi Format
I don't know if it's from a Graflex but I have read that their lenses can be removed from the focusing mount.
 

OAPOli

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
684
Location
Toronto
Format
Medium Format
I could be done. You can find M65 hardware (flange mount, helicoid, shutter mount) and attach the lens to a lens board. Then you can compute or determine a focus scale and stick it on the helicoid. Collimate the lens to the film back and use an external rangefinder. Happy to help with further details.

I'm curious about the Planar. Is it 6 or 7 element? What is the back focus distance?
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,530
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
Sheesh several times over.

The 4x5 Crown Graphic's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm.

Planars are not retrofocus. If anything, they're slightly telephoto.

As the OP stated in post #9 above the lens in question (his, not any old 80/2.8 Planar) is from a Graflex XL.

According to Arne Croell (http://www.arnecroell.com/ zeissoberkochen.pdf) it covers 100 mm, i.e., will cover 2x3 (=6x9) without movements.

OP, you'll likely have to focus on the GG.

Great clarification. One more thing… there were no recessed lens boards made for Crown Graphics.
 
OP
OP

campy51

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
1,215
Location
Boston area USA
Format
Multi Format
Is it worth it for $135, but looks like it will need a self cleaning which I have done before. I wouldn't send it out for a cleaning.
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,823
Format
Multi Format
I don't know if it's from a Graflex but I have read that their lenses can be removed from the focusing mount.

Yes, absolutely. I use an ex-Graflex XL on my 2x3 cameras.

Whether the lens is worth $135 is up to you. You'll have a hard time finding one for less, but if it doesn't fit your needs then it would be hard to justify at any price.

The first law of used lenses in shutter is that the shutter needs a CLA.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,530
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
Is it worth it for $135, but looks like it will need a self cleaning which I have done before. I wouldn't send it out for a cleaning.

Unless the $135 is needed for life essentials, I'd buy it to try. Might be a great solution to your desired intent. The synchro-Compur isn't the easiest to DIY repair without experience but not impossible. If you've done one before it shouldn't be a problem.
 

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,263
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
Is it worth it for $135, but looks like it will need a self cleaning which I have done before. I wouldn't send it out for a cleaning.

Yes, it should be worth it. However on a Crown Graphic it's wasted, go down Dan Fromm's route and use it on a more appropriate camera where you can at least use front tilt and a touch of rise and fall to stay in the image circle. It's just not the right lens for a 5x4 Pacemaker Graphic.

Ian
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom