Focus Your Old Folding Camera Accurately!

Monday317 · Dec 18, 2020

I'll post this elsewhere on Photrio and it's also in the German Folders group on FLICKR.

The bulk of the fine old Tessar-equipped cameras are murder for modern work if you want to use them under infinity (∞) for the lens & aperture in use. I couldn't accurately tell the difference between 1.5 and 2.3 meters if my children’s lives depended on it! If you hop on eBay and get one of the old split-image optical viewfinders, you quickly find them tough to see through and dim. What to do?

Bosch tools (and others) offer small (about 1/2 the size of an old flip phone), handheld laser distance finders, for about $30.00 USD as of 12/2020. They come in different maximum ranges, so if your lens’ ∞ distance is, say, 10m or 33 feet, you only need that or slightly longer--12-15m and you can enjoy reliable & consistent focusing at shorter distances with your folder. That said, they often have a maximum distance far beyond that.

These are super convenient to use, as if they were specially designed for our needs! They calculate distance from the butt end of the finder, so you only have to plant that onto your lens, press the button and bingo!--you know how to set your distance. They can be adjusted to read in meters, feet, mm, or inches, which is a huge help is you like to fiddle with close-up filters like a Kodak Portra to get a true bust portrait instead of settling for the head and shoulder view you usually get at you 1 or 1.x-meter minimum focal distance typical for these cameras. The laser spot size is small enough to get the distance at the bridge of the subject’s nose without hitting an eyeball if used with care. It's a red laser than shouldn't cause retinal damage from an accidental, brief exposure.

I can also vouch for the accuracy of the laser detectors. I tried one at it's maximum stated range into a shadowed box with bright room light, no sweat. Outdoors in bright sunlight against a white wall, the ranger still worked fine. With automatic shutoff, the battery lasts forever.

Take your old folder out and get that image of your cat on the porch with ease!!

Bosch GLM 20 Blaze 65' Laser Distance Measure, $29.97 USD on Amazon as of 12/14/2029:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CG97GR2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_glc_fabc_jqu3FbX8DF7SN

Kyle M. · Dec 18, 2020

I bought one of the Bosch units back in 2013 when I bought my first folder, they were about $80 back then. It has served me quite well, though I eventually got good enough at guessing the distance that I didn't need it. If in doubt I'll step off the distance as I know my stride is almost exactly 3', that gets me close enough. Although the only folder I currently have has a rangefinder.

narsuitus · Dec 18, 2020

I use a manual focus camera to determine the subject distance and then transfer the distance to the vintage folder.

Pentode · Dec 18, 2020

I usually use f/8 or smaller and a lot of hope. It's worked out pretty well so far!

The laser disto is a great idea, though, and far more accurate than, well, just about anything else! Just be careful using it in high-security areas. Laser distos and laser gun sights look exactly the same to potentially hostile security personnel who may or may not want to take the time to figure out which they're seeing!

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Dec 18, 2020

here's my secret, doesn't work when I have to vertical focusing, but it works and costs nothing:

I measured My feet- roughly 11 inches (approx. 27.94 cm), and count the steps lining my heels to toe from where I'm standing to where the subject is.

MattKing · Dec 18, 2020

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
here's my secret, doesn't work when I have to vertical focusing, but it works and costs nothing:

I measured My feet- roughly 11 inches (approx. 27.94 cm), and count the steps lining my heels to toe from where I'm standing to where the subject is.

Anyone else read this and think of Monty Python?

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Dec 18, 2020

MattKing said:
Anyone else read this and think of Monty Python?

Though I don't use my folding cameras super often, no one's ever asked me what I'm doing when I'm measuring the distance.

Also, I really needed those laughs.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 18, 2020

Monday317 said:
I'll post this elsewhere on Photrio and it's also in the German Folders group on FLICKR.

The bulk of the fine old Tessar-equipped cameras are murder for modern work if you want to use them under infinity (∞) for the lens & aperture in use. I couldn't accurately tell the difference between 1.5 and 2.3 meters if my children’s lives depended on it! If you hop on eBay and get one of the old split-image optical viewfinders, you quickly find them tough to see through and dim. What to do?

Bosch tools (and others) offer small (about 1/2 the size of an old flip phone), handheld laser distance finders, for about $30.00 USD as of 12/2020. They come in different maximum ranges, so if your lens’ ∞ distance is, say, 10m or 33 feet, you only need that or slightly longer--12-15m and you can enjoy reliable & consistent focusing at shorter distances with your folder. That said, they often have a maximum distance far beyond that.

These are super convenient to use, as if they were specially designed for our needs! They calculate distance from the butt end of the finder, so you only have to plant that onto your lens, press the button and bingo!--you know how to set your distance. They can be adjusted to read in meters, feet, mm, or inches, which is a huge help is you like to fiddle with close-up filters like a Kodak Portra to get a true bust portrait instead of settling for the head and shoulder view you usually get at you 1 or 1.x-meter minimum focal distance typical for these cameras. The laser spot size is small enough to get the distance at the bridge of the subject’s nose without hitting an eyeball if used with care. It's a red laser than shouldn't cause retinal damage from an accidental, brief exposure.

I can also vouch for the accuracy of the laser detectors. I tried one at it's maximum stated range into a shadowed box with bright room light, no sweat. Outdoors in bright sunlight against a white wall, the ranger still worked fine. With automatic shutoff, the battery lasts forever.

Take your old folder out and get that image of your cat on the porch with ease!!

Bosch GLM 20 Blaze 65' Laser Distance Measure, $29.97 USD on Amazon as of 12/14/2029:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CG97GR2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_glc_fabc_jqu3FbX8DF7SN

a modern laser supporting an old folder camera;just beautiful!

markjwyatt · Dec 18, 2020

Deja vu... I use a Kodak Instamatic 60 rangefinder as my portable distance measure (the laser rangefinder looks interesting too).

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2020

I added a snap on cold shoe and bought an inexpensive bar shaped range finder. I used the ranger finder to get the focus distance and set the distance on the camera.

ic-racer · Dec 18, 2020

I carry my Minox around with my 'folder' so I can use my Minox rangefinder to focus....
You can see I have pretty long arms compared to some.

Alex Varas · Dec 19, 2020

I use old external rangefinder Leica with long distance between glasses, accurate and I never missed the focus.

Helge · Dec 19, 2020

The trouble with laser RF is that you have an extra thing to fiddle with, while holding the camera and possibly a light meter.
It very easily develops into a comical and dangerous juggling game.

Unless you are using a tripod. But tripods are for when you brought them, have a still subject or someone you can coax into being still.
Then you might as well use a measuring tape.

There is also the whole Human Rangefinder card thing. Never really got it to work well at close ranges though, which is where focusing matters and is hard.

Thing is, with some training, you can actually get very good at judging distances by eye. And a laser RF can be a good aid in getting to the point where you get good enough™.
I can get it right to within about twenty centimeters most of the time, which is plenty good if you are stopped down to f8.
In lower light use bounce flash and/or longer exposures on a tripod.

Folders should (and in fact most medium format cameras) be used stopped down most of the time. And that is for a variety of reasons. Folders especially because they have front standards and film planes that might be less than absolutely parallel, even with exemplary folding mechanisms.

Further problems with laser RF is that they are very hard to know if you aimed right in daylight.
The little spot very easily gets lost in a bright setting and at distance.
Furthermore:
Most of them look like ass. Even the actual good ones from Leitz/Leica (I know I'll hear from a lot of aesthetic virtue signallers and humble braggers on this about "looks not mattering" or similar. Don't even go there. It does and you know it, and you even know why, if you think about it a bit).
They look like something Dewalt or Bosch designed (even if the brand is different) for family fathers reared on awful 90's "fast, organic, futuristic" design.

Give me a device that has laser RF, light meter and a big bright finder, all in one cube to put on a cold shoe or tripod socket.
Then we will be talking.
Can't be that hard to do‽
Ethan Moses where are you‽

moggi1964 · Dec 19, 2020

narsuitus said:
I use a manual focus camera to determine the subject distance and then transfer the distance to the vintage folder.

If I'm out with my folder and my Olympus EM1 MkII I just use Pre-MF on my Olympus with my 12-20 lens and like you I get an accurate distance which I transfer to the folder.

Otherwise, I just estimate it and shoot at F/5.6 or F/8

Monday317 · Dec 19, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
I added a snap on cold shoe and bought an inexpensive bar shaped range finder. I used the ranger finder to get the focus distance and set the distance on the camera.

I tried a couple but found them dim and hard to see at times. When my brother-in-law got a Bosch unit a few Xmases ago, I knew the problem had a solution!

Monday317 · Dec 19, 2020

Helge said:
The trouble with laser RF is that you have an extra thing to fiddle with, while holding the camera and possibly a light meter.
It very easily develops into a comical and dangerous juggling game.

Unless you are using a tripod. But tripods are for when you brought them, have a still subject or someone you can coax into being still.
Then you might as well use a measuring tape.

There is also the whole Human Rangefinder card thing. Never really got it to work well at close ranges though, which is where focusing matters and is hard.

Thing is, with some training, you can actually get very good at judging distances by eye. And a laser RF can be a good aid in getting to the point where you get good enough™.
I can get it right to within about twenty centimeters most of the time, which is plenty good if you are stopped down to f8.
In lower light use bounce flash and/or longer exposures on a tripod.

Folders should (and in fact most medium format cameras) be used stopped down most of the time. And that is for a variety of reasons. Folders especially because they have front standards and film planes that might be less than absolutely parallel, even with exemplary folding mechanisms.

Further problems with laser RF is that they are very hard to know if you aimed right in daylight.
The little spot very easily gets lost in a bright setting and at distance.
Furthermore:
Most of them look like ass. Even the actual good ones from Leitz/Leica (I know I'll hear from a lot of aesthetic virtue signallers and humble braggers on this about "looks not mattering" or similar. Don't even go there. It does and you know it, and you even know why, if you think about it a bit).
They look like something Dewalt or Bosch designed (even if the brand is different) for family fathers reared on awful 90's "fast, organic, futuristic" design.

Give me a device that has laser RF, light meter and a big bright finder, all in one cube to put on a cold shoe or tripod socket.
Then we will be talking.
Can't be that hard to do‽
Ethan Moses where are you‽

The Bosch unit is small and easy to use. Moreover if you are checking distance on a subject under your lens’ infinity limit, it's unlikely you’ll lose the dot unless you are targeting a red surface close to the color of the laser.

In use, you hold the camera with one hand and get a framing in the viewfinder (on my Ercona I [Super Ikonta clone], it's just a little pop up frame), and butt the laser case on the lens ring, then push the button. No sweat at all!

Helge · Dec 19, 2020

Monday317 said:
The Bosch unit is small and easy to use. Moreover if you are checking distance on a subject under your lens’ infinity limit, it's unlikely you’ll lose the dot unless you are targeting a red surface close to the color of the laser.

In use, you hold the camera with one hand and get a framing in the viewfinder (on my Ercona I [Super Ikonta clone], it's just a little pop up frame), and butt the laser case on the lens ring, then push the button. No sweat at all!

Believe me I’ve been using a laser RF for some time and it’s a problem.
One tip is to use the body of the LRF as a sights to aim. But it’s not perfect.
However inside it’s often pretty good.
Impossible for children or animals though.

Cheap rangefinders also have limited range in bright sunshine.
I guess the laser is simply “deafened” out.

Overall I’ve found the LRF a far more powerful tool to hone my sense of distance.
Playing around with it, out on a walk or just at idle moments really helps.
It’s gratifying seeing your “self quiz” become gradually tighter and faster.
I can pretty much nail 1.2, 2 and 3 meters, three tricky settings in my Ikonta (even at f8 the DoF is pretty thin).
I just a set my distance and then quickly move in on the subject, concentrating on getting the composition right rather than fiddling with a rangefinder.

takilmaboxer · Dec 20, 2020

I've gotten really good at estimating 10 feet (3 meters) distance. Anything closer and I use one of my many 35mm SLRs.

russell_w_b · Dec 20, 2020

My first folder, a Mess-Baldix, has a rangefinder built in which is accurate, but it's only a small viewfinder and tricky in dull light. I've since acquired three more folders none with a rangefinder. It's not often I use the rangefinder nowadays as I can guess reasonably accurately in feet (I'm six feet tall and can gauge where I would be lying down and go in multiples of that).

Also I try not to shoot wider than f8 as the triplet lenses are somewhat soft below that. We have a Leica laser measuring device at work and I did wonder about using it for photography. Some people say if you leave your folder lens set to the red dot 'sweet spot' you can be handy for a pic, which is true. But I'm mindful of shutting the folder with the lens wound out in case it squishes it and damages the alignment.

Helge · Dec 20, 2020

Try actually measuring those much vaunted and lusted for rangefinder medium format folders. And you’ll be shocked how much the results vary and how generally inaccurate the readings are.
Not better than an experienced guess.

And that is with a well calibrated specimen.
For mechanisms that hasn’t seen realignment since the 50s, they will almost inevitably be off by too much to work.

The mechanics drift but the readings also vary depending on human factors (discernment tolerances, lighting, exact eyeball position over the aperture etc.).

A person with the parallax information from head movement actually has a much better data set to judge distance from.

russell_w_b · Dec 20, 2020

Helge said:
Try actually measuring those much vaunted and lusted for rangefinder medium format folders. And you’ll be shocked how much the results vary and how generally inaccurate the readings are.

The rangefinder adjustment knob on the Mess Baldix has spaces between the salient markings, as has the lens. So at best, it's down to accurate interpolation of what you think the distance actually is, then transferring this interpolated distance to an uncoupled lens and hoping the interpolation fits in!

But my particular rangefinder is still accurate when aligned with distances that correspond to the salient points. Fortunately, the camera is too, as I found with a ground glass, a loupe, and a fair bit of wandering around the garden with a target and a tape measure. I was lucky with the camera, I guess: it had been well looked-after.

Helge · Dec 20, 2020

russell_w_b said:
The rangefinder adjustment knob on the Mess Baldix has spaces between the salient markings, as has the lens. So at best, it's down to accurate interpolation of what you think the distance actually is, then transferring this interpolated distance to an uncoupled lens and hoping the interpolation fits in!

But my particular rangefinder is still accurate when aligned with distances that correspond to the salient points. Fortunately, the camera is too, as I found with a ground glass, a loupe, and a fair bit of wandering around the garden with a target and a tape measure. I was lucky with the camera, I guess: it had been well looked-after.

Not to plant paranoia in you, but how do you know? Have you shot wide open and done critical focusing? You might get lucky over a few shots.
But can you nail it at 3.5 consistently?

I'd say it's impossible with the aid of the RF alone.

As I wrote previously, any RF of that kind and grade of construction inherently has some drift and room for interpretation related to sensorics and human factors, even when working optimally.

Bill Burk · Dec 20, 2020

markjwyatt said:
Deja vu... I use a Kodak Instamatic 60 rangefinder as my portable distance measure (the laser rangefinder looks interesting too).

Never thought about that. Without a K battery I figured it was decor.
p.s. I asked some random kids to guess what it was and everyone knew it was a camera.

russell_w_b · Dec 21, 2020

Helge said:
Not to plant paranoia in you, but how do you know? Have you shot wide open and done critical focusing? You might get lucky over a few shots.
But can you nail it at 3.5 consistently?

My R/F Baldix is f4.5 (Baltar, 75mm). I have a Baldix with an f3.5 Ennagon but it's not an R/F. I did check the collimation as best I could, yes. Did all that wide-open (worst case) with a loupe, ground glass, coat with big hood, etc... I use the built-in rangefinder less and less now as my judgement of distance has improved over time and as long as I stay within the limitations of the camera, it's fine. I'm not going to get paranoid on a camera that set me back thirty-six quid. I might have a different attitude with a £2k Leica though, and would want the R/F down to an inch!

Helge · Dec 21, 2020

russell_w_b said:
My R/F Baldix is f4.5 (Baltar, 75mm). I have a Baldix with an f3.5 Ennagon but it's not an R/F. I did check the collimation as best I could, yes. Did all that wide-open (worst case) with a loupe, ground glass, coat with big hood, etc... I use the built-in rangefinder less and less now as my judgement of distance has improved over time and as long as I stay within the limitations of the camera, it's fine. I'm not going to get paranoid on a camera that set me back thirty-six quid. I might have a different attitude with a £2k Leica though, and would want the R/F down to an inch!

I have no doubt that you checked collamination to a tee.
The optics and mechanics of these simple rangefinders are simply not up to the job required for precise focus for a format as large as 6x6 (or any medium format).
It’s better then a haphazard guess by a dilettante sure, but try to make the same exact measurement twice, with some time and other measurements in between and you’ll be surprised at how much variation there is.

Here is the RF of a Baldix. evidently very simple and somewhat crude stuff.
Especially the cam controlling the mirror is a source of variation.

Of course you can begin to discuss the necessity or virtue of and cult around and for precise focus.

But nevertheless medium format will sometimes tempt or force you to max out the aperture.
DoF on medium format is smaller and than with 135 and the apertures are mostly slower.

I suspect this was the real cause of the shift in the fifties and sixties to 135, not film economy or cheaper and better enlargements.

Focus Your Old Folding Camera Accurately!

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency