Focus Collar on Kodak Medalist II stuck

Elfcirynn · Apr 19, 2019

I bought a Kodak Medalist II today, and while I normally wouldn't buy a camera I couldn't use, it's in pretty good shape cosmetically and for 30 bucks? I obviously couldn't just leave it there on the shelf.

Knowing next to nothing about the camera, I took it home a did a little research, found that it had a roll of Verichrome Pan still in it (we'll see if there's anything left on it!), and quickly discovered that the focusing collar is stuck fast. Now my understanding of the Medalist is that the shutter can't/shouldn't be cocked and fired without the lens being extended, which puts me at a bit of an impasse.

I haven't had a chance to really attempt disassembly yet, and I figured it would be prudent to leverage the collective wisdom and experience of the internet before I got in too far! Is this an issue anyone else has come across? I need an idiot-check to make sure I haven't missed something fairly obvious (some kind of lens safety that I should have seen that no one talks about because it should be fairly apparent??). Or is it probably just old lubricant-turned-gunk that I need to clean out?

Thanks, folks!

Kino · Apr 19, 2019

It's probably just petrified lube, but I will acquiesce to others more knowledgeable about the Medalist...

Kino · Apr 19, 2019

PS. If you need a manual... http://www.cameramanuals.org/kodak_pdf/kodak_medalist.pdf

KN4SMF · Apr 19, 2019

The camera needs a complete overhaul. Getting the lens unstuck is only the first in a line of needed repair items. I've worked on this camera. Mine turned out irreparable due to a worn out escapement. Suggest you sell it (to me maybe) or send it out for a proper CLA. Its a heck of a camera but as it is now will not give good service even if you do get the focus dial unstuck. GL

campy51 · Apr 20, 2019

I would start dropping a little lighter fluid around the focusing gears inside and out and see if it frees it up enough to extend and go from there. Keep it away from the lens and worst case you have an interesting display piece.

Dan Daniel · Apr 20, 2019

Any movement at all?

The collar is rotated counterclockwise to extend the lens. Just to be certain you are cranking it the right direction. Go ahead and put a little force into this- not enough to open a new pickle jar, maybe, but close to that level of twisting. Some Medalist seem to have a little 'hitch' at the withdrawn position that takes a nudge to release.

Look inside the back for any corrosion, or any misplaced parts, something that could be jamming it up. The Medalist is a pretty simple camera in that mechanisms are fairly obvious and exposed. Don't go twisting any screws, but go ahead and see if various pieces slide back and forth, etc. To the left of the lens tube at the top of the interior, you should see a metal plate with cutouts that goes across the whole camera- this should be able to move a bit, just atouch at leaast. If it is completely unmovable, that might be the problem.

If you can post a photo of the interior top, do so- show the top of the lens tube, the two metals tabs at the top center, and light it so that we can see the parts above those tabs. I wonder if the main plate is jammed onto one of the tabs making the lens tube unmovable.

Also as someone said, drip naphtha around the lens tube. Inside, use a brush or qtip to do some around the tube at the exterior front edge. Let sit for a few minutes, then try again.

Elfcirynn · Apr 20, 2019

Currently there's no movement, it seems fairly cemented together. It feels almost as if there's a safety catch preventing it from turning but I can tell yet if that's because it's caught on something or just how stuck the helicoid is.

Dan, let me know if this picture shows the parts you were asking about!

Elfcirynn · Apr 20, 2019

KN4SMF said:
The camera needs a complete overhaul. Getting the lens unstuck is only the first in a line of needed repair items. I've worked on this camera. Mine turned out irreparable due to a worn out escapement. Suggest you sell it (to me maybe) or send it out for a proper CLA. Its a heck of a camera but as it is now will not give good service even if you do get the focus dial unstuck. GL

I'm down for a little bit of light CLA work, but if you have any recommendations for where I can send it out I'd love to hear it.

removedacct1 · Apr 20, 2019

Elfcirynn said:
I'm down for a little bit of light CLA work, but if you have any recommendations for where I can send it out I'd love to hear it.

Zacks Camera Repair does Medalist repairs.

campy51 · Apr 20, 2019

Elfcirynn said:
Currently there's no movement, it seems fairly cemented together. It feels almost as if there's a safety catch preventing it from turning but I can tell yet if that's because it's caught on something or just how stuck the helicoid is.

Dan, let me know if this picture shows the parts you were asking about!

At 11:00 o'clock above the spring there is a rod that the assly slides on. Put a little oil or lighter fluid and see if that frees it up any. You can also put some on the left and right side of the assly where you see the chrome focus screw meets the black metal.

Dan Daniel · Apr 20, 2019

Elfcirynn said:
Currently there's no movement, it seems fairly cemented together. It feels almost as if there's a safety catch preventing it from turning but I can tell yet if that's because it's caught on something or just how stuck the helicoid is.

Dan, let me know if this picture shows the parts you were asking about!

Didn't see this post until just now....

OK, next to the 'DO' in do not turn sticker upper left side there, there's a silver disk inside the camera. And touching up against it to the right is a black metal part. This is what I was wondering- that black metal part could get jammed and stop the lens tube from moving. But sitting as it is, up against the silver disk, tells me that it is resting where it should. See if the black metal part will slide to the right. There should be a little travel. If not, that is probably the problem, but it is probably jammed up at the front right-center area, hard to get to from here.

See if the plate at the top of the lens tube will slide to the right- it has a spring attached to the middle. Also you can do some simple tests on the shutter. Try cocking it using the lever under the viewfinder- you'll see that long metal part that end in a rod and goes into the back of the shutter move to the left. Take a screwdriver and push that rod to the right- push at the back of the shutter. Medium force.

The Medalist is a pretty simple device, and very spare.It isn't impossible to muddle through a disassembly. But it is also a unique design, unlike most other cameras so previous experience is no guarantee of future performance as they say. If you want to learn, a $30 camera is a great learner. But I always approach my first disassembly of any camera as an autopsy so if I am not prepared to end up with a cadaver I don't go in

Elfcirynn · Apr 20, 2019

The black metal part slides, the shutter lever under the view finder engages with the plate at the top of the lens tube and feels like it wants to cock the shutter, but it's a little tight.

I'm definitely not afraid to crack into this and end up with a little more experience and a camera for the display shelf rather than the gear shelf!

John Wiegerink · Apr 20, 2019

Elfcirynn said:
The black metal part slides, the shutter lever under the view finder engages with the plate at the top of the lens tube and feels like it wants to cock the shutter, but it's a little tight.

I'm definitely not afraid to crack into this and end up with a little more experience and a camera for the display shelf rather than the gear shelf!

Speaking from experience I'd say you'll have to crack it open. Now comes my warning "DO NOT DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE A REPAIR MANUAL IN YOUR HANDS". These are old cameras and the number of working ones out there is getting smaller and smaller. Why? The most common reason is that folks try or attempt to do repairs without the proper manual. I bought my first Medalist II at a flea market 40+ years ago for exactly the price you paid. The camera worked perfect and after my first roll through it I was in love. I have owned many since and now have just three left and almost all the accessories such as the ground glass back for sheet film or roll holder. Enough said on that part. With the manual you will start to understand why you don't want to crack it open unless you have that manual. You can find the manuals on eBay and there are usually a couple of different manuals out there. I like the U.S. Navy/Marine repair manual myself, but either one is better than none. Just like the operation of the camera the disassembly and assembly has to be done in the proper sequence or you can damage the camera. Oh, and the other most important thing a person must have to work on a Medalist is patience and a lot of it. But don't be afraid to try it . Worst thing that can happen is you have a new shelf queen. Of course it might already be beyond repair due to broken parts with no easy place to buy for those broken parts. So, have at it and I wish the best of luck to go with you skill. JohnW

Elfcirynn · Apr 21, 2019

The answer seems to have been a spot of solvent and a strap wrench for mechanical advantage! So the lens extends now (and I cleaned all the gunk off), but it doesn’t seem to be coupled to the range-finder/distance gauge. But the shutter works, which is a plus!

John Wiegerink · Apr 23, 2019

Like I said earlier, this camera has to be worked in its sequence and a strap wrench is not in its sequence. I really doubt that the dirty focusing helicoids were stopping the tube from extending. These cameras were made for the military(Marines and sailors), which means they could take being plenty dirty and still work. I'd be willing to bet a six pack your camera was jammed somewhere in its sequence. Most likely the focusing rail inside the camera itself. Now you have no rangefinder and worst of all you have no focus disc for even scale focusing. If you are real lucking you only bent a part in the sequence and not completely destroyed it. This is one of the best cameras ever made and it's a shame to destroy it for lack of patients and lack of the proper repair manual. Actually it's not just a shame, but a sin. Please get the repair manual off eBay, it's well worth the waiting time and money. One thing this post did was make me get my three Medalist's out and play with them. Last night I respooled three rolls of 120 to 620 spools, two HP5+ and one of Delta 100. I leave for my cottage this afternoon and my favorite film camera is going with me. Good luck, JohnW

KN4SMF · Apr 23, 2019

I rather well thought it was something "under the hood" rather than stuck helicals. Now the rangefinder doesn't work. i'm not surprised. What a shame to tear up a camera like that.

Dan Daniel · Apr 23, 2019

Calm down, guys. First, for all its uniqueness, the medalist is certainly not one of the best cameras ever made. It is a Chevy truck of a camera. Look inside a Leica and look inside a Medalist and the differences will be obvious which one represents precision industrial production and tolerances, and which one represents Rube Goldberg. They were built to be serviced on the battlefield by soldiers given a week of training. The manual includes 'keep bending the part until it works' as instructions. Take away that lens and you have a curiosity piece when Buck Rogers hooked up with a '39 Chevy.

John Koehrer · Apr 23, 2019

Dan Daniel said:
Calm down, guys. First, for all its uniqueness, the medalist is certainly not one of the best cameras ever made. It is a Chevy truck of a camera. Look inside a Leica and look inside a Medalist and the differences will be obvious which one represents precision industrial production and tolerances, and which one represents Rube Goldberg. They were built to be serviced on the battlefield by soldiers given a week of training. The manual includes 'keep bending the part until it works' as instructions. Take away that lens and you have a curiosity piece when Buck Rogers hooked up with a '39 Chevy.

'keep bending the part until it works' It's called "reforming or adjusting" in the trade, that way you can charge more.

campy51 · Apr 23, 2019

John Koehrer said:
'keep bending the part until it works' It's called "reforming or adjusting" in the trade, that way you can charge more.

You bend you break, you form you fix.

KN4SMF · Apr 23, 2019

A lot of the finest machinery ever made involves a certain amount of parts bending to a achieve proper adjustment.

Dan Daniel · Apr 24, 2019

KN4SMF said:
A lot of the finest machinery ever made involves a certain amount of parts bending to a achieve proper adjustment.

Yes, but that does not mean the reverse, that all machinery that needs parts bent are the finest

Elfcirynn · Apr 24, 2019

The rangefinder does work, it’s just a little gummy, I was looking through it in a dark basements and clearly not paying enough attention before trying to share my excitement in this thread!

I’m looking forward to running some film through it shortly and I’ll let you guys know how it goes! I still need my 6x9 neg carrier but I have a 6x7 that should do me fine for now.

Elfcirynn · Apr 24, 2019

John Wiegerink said:
Like I said earlier, this camera has to be worked in its sequence and a strap wrench is not in its sequence. I really doubt that the dirty focusing helicoids were stopping the tube from extending. These cameras were made for the military(Marines and sailors), which means they could take being plenty dirty and still work. I'd be willing to bet a six pack your camera was jammed somewhere in its sequence. Most likely the focusing rail inside the camera itself. Now you have no rangefinder and worst of all you have no focus disc for even scale focusing. If you are real lucking you only bent a part in the sequence and not completely destroyed it. This is one of the best cameras ever made and it's a shame to destroy it for lack of patients and lack of the proper repair manual. Actually it's not just a shame, but a sin. Please get the repair manual off eBay, it's well worth the waiting time and money. One thing this post did was make me get my three Medalist's out and play with them. Last night I respooled three rolls of 120 to 620 spools, two HP5+ and one of Delta 100. I leave for my cottage this afternoon and my favorite film camera is going with me. Good luck, JohnW

I have the repair manual and have been doing my research but I appreciate the concern!

John Wiegerink · Apr 24, 2019

Dan Daniel said:
Yes, but that does not mean the reverse, that all machinery that needs parts bent are the finest

Dan,
You are right and wrong. Somethings, like a fine watch for example, need tight tolerances in order to keep time accurately. Other things like guns for war purposes are the opposite. The AK47 is a fine example of very loose tolerances. Some of my Marine buddies in Vietnam would carry an AK47 . Why? Because they were trouble free and when your life depends on it you want trouble free. The Kodak Medalist I and II were much the same as the AK47 and it's exactly why the Navy used it in WWII.
Edward Steichen's whole naval photo crew were required to completely disassemble the Medalist and reassemble it in correct working order or they were out of a job. Try that with your precision made Leica. I think Steichen would have had a smaller crew if he were issued Leicas. It's said that the Navy used the Medalist to photograph Japanese shore batteries prior to Marine beach landings. I'm very sure they didn't doe this from 50 feet away. To be able to even make out shore batteries at those distances means a lens of excellent resolving power. So, we don't even have to talk about the 100mm f3.5 Ektar. Yes, the Germans were equipped with Leicas, 9x12cm cameras and some Ikontas. I bet there were not many German photographers that could take apart their Leica in the field and put it back together again like Steichens crew of photographers could. See, sometimes precision is NOT the answer to getting the job done. A well tuned Kodak Medalist has all the precision anyone needs. I still rate it as one of the best cameras ever made and that's why it was named a "professional" camera. JohnW

John Wiegerink · Apr 24, 2019

Elfcirynn said:
I have the repair manual and have been doing my research but I appreciate the concern!

Very good! I'm glad you got the manual as it's a must for tuning the Medalist.

Focus Collar on Kodak Medalist II stuck

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