Floating lid for large trays?

Dave Krueger · Nov 22, 2006

I did a forum search, but wasn't able to come up with an answer for this. Maybe I didn't pick the right terms.

Anyone know of a material that can be used as a floating lid for an 11x14 tray? I sometimes leave the chemicals in the trays when I do other things and would like to reduce the amount of surface area exposed to the air.

I was thinking perhaps there might be some kind of foam matting that would float but would be non-porous enough to keep from absorbing too much chemical. Wishful thinking?

-Dave

ann · Nov 22, 2006

you can use saran wrap. it needs to be that brand (don't know why, but it does). float it on top and wrap along the sides.

Dave Krueger · Nov 22, 2006

ann said:
you can use saran wrap. it needs to be that brand (don't know why, but it does). float it on top and wrap along the sides.

Hmmm... I like that. Disposable as well. I like stuff I don't have to wash.

jstraw · Nov 23, 2006

Don't stretch it across the top of the tray, float it right on the solutions. Zero air space.

ann · Nov 23, 2006

am sorry i wasn't clearer, top was meant the solution not stretched across the tray.

Dave Krueger · Nov 23, 2006

ann said:
am sorry i wasn't clearer, top was meant the solution not stretched across the tray.

No problem. I understood what you meant when you said to float it on top, which is what I was looking for. The narrower rolls that my wife gets aren't wide enough, so I'll need to see what's available.

blansky · Nov 23, 2006

I use plexiglas over all my trays that have smelly solutions. The plexi is cut a couple of inches bigger than the tray.

If you wanted "floating" covers you could cut the plexi to fit inside the tray.

Michael

Dave Krueger · Nov 23, 2006

blansky said:
I use plexiglas over all my trays that have smelly solutions. The plexi is cut a couple of inches bigger than the tray.

If you wanted "floating" covers you could cut the plexi to fit inside the tray.

Michael

But would the plexiglas float? I haven't a clue what real floating covers even look like, so I'm speaking totally from ignorance.

kwmullet · Nov 23, 2006

blansky said:
I use plexiglas over all my trays that have smelly solutions. The plexi is cut a couple of inches bigger than the tray.

If you wanted "floating" covers you could cut the plexi to fit inside the tray.

Michael

This is something I'm giving thought to now. I want to leave my trayline set up so I can dash in, crank one off (a print, that is), and dash out when small intervals of time present themselves.

I've got Ansco 130, part "B" / Carbinate/Washing soda, citric acid stop, and fix. For all but the fix, I'm just concerned about retarding evaporation. Would I be correct in assuming that plexi setting on the top of the tray, maybe with a beanbag on top or something, will do a fairly good job?

For the fix, I believe I need to try and prevent oxidation as well, or make ten gallons of Hypo at a time, dump hypo tray#2, rotate #1 to be #2 and pour a fresh #1 for each day, session or umpteen prints. How much better would an actual floating lid in contact with the fix be than a lid on setting on the top of a half-full 11x14 tray?

-KwM-

blansky · Nov 23, 2006

I do it for the reasons of smell, because usually I throw away everything after most sessions.

Sometimes I keep fixer in an 8x10 tray for a few days for proofing and there is condensation on the underside so it will stop condensation.

I use the 1/8 inch plexi, actually scratched stuff from framing, and I don't need any weights on top.

Michael

jp80874 · Nov 23, 2006

Dave,

Possibly too expensive, but there are stainless steel trays made for this with floating lids that are like trays within. The university where I take photo courses has two gang darkrooms with 15 enlargers per room with a huge dedicated developing sink down the middle. The two ss fixer trays have floating stainless trays that fit inside the larger tray and float on the hypo surface when the kids aren't there.

I found a single tray like this for 16x20 inch prints on eBay. Can't remember what I paid for it and the brand doesn't show on the tray. For the second tray I use a standard ss tray and just siphon off the fixer into brown plastic gallon jugs and pour it back in another day. Ive looked for a vendor to show you a picture, but have not found one. Possibly someone else can help.

I also use the 8 foot ss sink for Jobo film developing, but I can carefully slide the single hypo tank to the side. You must go slowly or it all sloshes out. Then you have thrown away what you were carefully trying to preserve.

Ann, what we need to invent is not the saran wrap lid, but a saran wrap tray that is rigid.

John Powers

tim rudman · Nov 24, 2006

blansky said:
I use plexiglas over all my trays that have smelly solutions. The plexi is cut a couple of inches bigger than the tray.

If you wanted "floating" covers you could cut the plexi to fit inside the tray.
Michael

I do this too. I have a set of 20+,x 24+ plexiglass sheets, some smaller sizes too, but I find that the largest ones cover everything well and can be overlapped so I use them for all sizes. I only use the 18 x 14 to put inside larger trays if I want a flat surface under a print - say to swab off the residue from sulphide toners - as a ribbed dish may leave impressions on the print after swabbing.

As they are larger than the tray edges, I also use them as covers to 'double deck' trays when I need a lot of trays out, so I don't have to keep clearing up between stages of printing, bleaching, toning etc. I often use 8 to 10 large trays and can't accommodate them all in the sink at the same time, until I get my extra sink installed. (keep putting this off as it means a re-design and restructuring!)

Re the question of floating - it floats at first but sinks after a while (see 'swabbing' above) so I wouldn't think it would be ideal for putting on the chemical solution surface as a floating cover inside the tray. If you have it made larger you can use it to stack trays too - much more useful.
Tim

Paul VanAudenhove · Nov 24, 2006

Saran Wrap

ann said:
you can use saran wrap. it needs to be that brand (don't know why, but it does). float it on top and wrap along the sides.

It is my understanding that Saran Wrap doesn't allow oxygen to migrate through the film, and the cheaper (imitation) cling films do allow gases to penetrate. At least that's what I think I have read. :rolleyes:

blansky · Nov 24, 2006

Tim, I built a "shelf" system to stack 20x24 trays. I have dev, stop, fix 1, fix 2and permawash all stacked. Then I have a 20x24 syphon tray, then a 20x24 selenium tray with a "suspended" 20x24 printwasher all in the sink at the same time. The printwasher is placed horizontally on glass blocks on each end that allow a 20x24 tray (selenium) to fit fit underneath.

I have plexi over the fix trays, the perma wash tray and the toner tray.

This stacking system allows me to print 20x24 prints from beginning to end and never move anything.

Michael

tim rudman · Nov 24, 2006

blansky said:
Tim, I built a "shelf" system to stack 20x24 trays. I have dev, stop, fix 1, fix 2and permawash all stacked. Then I have a 20x24 syphon tray, then a 20x24 selenium tray with a "suspended" 20x24 printwasher all in the sink at the same time. The printwasher is placed horizontally on glass blocks on each end that allow a 20x24 tray (selenium) to fit fit underneath.

I have plexi over the fix trays, the perma wash tray and the toner tray.

This stacking system allows me to print 20x24 prints from beginning to end and never move anything.

Michael

That sounds pretty neat Michael. You don't have a pic do you?
Tim

blansky · Nov 24, 2006

tim rudman said:
That sounds pretty neat Michael. You don't have a pic do you?
Tim

I'll take one.

Michael

blansky · Nov 24, 2006

This is a very functional very unpretty darkroom. Definately not a "dream" darkroom. I print a number of 20x24s every week and needed a system to work efficiently.

I stand on a one foot high stool to put the print in the developer. From there I can just stand on the floor.

I can have all the trays working at once. From fix 2 I go to the syphon wash for 3-5 minutes then into perma for three then syphon for 3 then toner. The toner is under the archival washer. When I work it's covered with plexi.

Michael

tim rudman · Nov 24, 2006

blansky said:
This is a very functional very unpretty darkroom. Definately not a "dream" darkroom. I print a number of 20x24s every week and needed a system to work efficiently.

I stand on a one foot high stool to put the print in the developer. From there I can just stand on the floor.

I can have all the trays working at once. From fix 2 I go to the syphon wash for 3-5 minutes then into perma for three then syphon for 3 then toner. The toner is under the archival washer. When I work it's covered with plexi.
Michael

Good set up Michael, it looks a very efficient use of footprint space.
I would find it difficult to operate for some processes though, but for straight B&W/Selenium it looks ideal.
For lith printing it is necessary to interrupt the rapidly accelerating infectious development by swiftly moving into stop bath at the precise moment, so having then next to each other is better for me. Similarly, for bleaching I like to have the bleach next to a deep sink with a hose so I can hose off the bleach fast at the right moment.
I like the raised washer over the Se though. I could definitely use that idea for one or two things I do. Thanks for showing me.
Tim

blansky · Nov 24, 2006

Tim, the tray on the bottom of the stack is permawash and can slide under the "shelf". So there is room for an extra 20x24 tray on either side of the siphon wash. When I do sepia or the rare time I do lith I change things around a bit.

The syphon wash is elevated by a plexiglass "stand" because the drain is under there. For the archival print washer I just bought a couple of glass blocks ( the ornamental ones people use instead of windows) with a fairly thick piece of plexiglass under the washer. A 20x24 tray fits under there with room to add and remove a plexi cover.

Michael

Dave Krueger · Nov 25, 2006

Wow. You guys take this photography stuff really seriously, don't you? LOL!

I will look into the stainless steel trays with lids. Actually, if it weren't for the ridges on the bottom, another tray could probably be used as a floating lid. I never leave the chemicals out over night, but it's not uncommon for me to be away from the darkroom for several hours.

Michael, what's the thing with the steering wheel under your sink? It looks like a dry mount press, but I've never seen one like that. Looks like you could press small animals under that (not saying you collect flattened animals or anything...).

I've never done a print bigger than 16x20, for which I use the single tray method, but I like the stacked tray arrangement for 20x24 prints.

-Dave

Robert Hall · Nov 28, 2006

Glass bricks, great idea.

thx

blansky · Nov 28, 2006

Dave Krueger said:
Wow. You guys take this photography stuff really seriously, don't you? LOL!

I will look into the stainless steel trays with lids. Actually, if it weren't for the ridges on the bottom, another tray could probably be used as a floating lid. I never leave the chemicals out over night, but it's not uncommon for me to be away from the darkroom for several hours.

Michael, what's the thing with the steering wheel under your sink? It looks like a dry mount press, but I've never seen one like that. Looks like you could press small animals under that (not saying you collect flattened animals or anything...).

I've never done a print bigger than 16x20, for which I use the single tray method, but I like the stacked tray arrangement for 20x24 prints.

-Dave

It's called an Ademco Press, made in England I think. I had one that I bought used in my studio in Canada, I found one here in a photography store that was used also for $400. It does 20x24. Instead of a handle to press down it has the steering wheel that you spin down to press the print. I printed hundreds of prints with them, as well as canvas mounted prints. They work great and weight a ton.

Michael

Gerald Koch · Nov 28, 2006

I once read an article on making floating lids for developing tanks. They were made of 1/2 to 5/8 inch marine plywood and sealed with the resin used for fiber glass. The wood will definitely float. The sides should be beveled to account for the sloping sides of the trays.

jstraw · Nov 28, 2006

Chemists, is there any reason that floating styrofoam sheets in b&w chemistry would be a bad idea?

blansky · Nov 28, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
I once read an article on making floating lids for developing tanks. They were made of 1/2 to 5/8 inch marine plywood and sealed with the resin used for fiber glass. The wood will definitely float. The sides should be beveled to account for the sloping sides of the trays.

You gotta wonder if the mess you make taking these things out of the solution as well as storing them is worth all the effort.

My costs for developer is between $2 and $12 depending on the size of the print.

Michael

Floating lid for large trays?

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