Flemish Toner - What is it?

Shmoo · Mar 31, 2005

Last year, while cleaning out my dad's house, I found a bottle that was labeled "Flemish Toner". Anyone know what it is?

Shmoo

Monophoto · Mar 31, 2005

I think Flemish was DuPont's proprietary selenium toner. Hasn't been available in at least 30 years.

Loose Gravel · Mar 31, 2005

I have a gallon jug of it that I bought at Freestyle about 20 years ago. It is selenium toner.

Charles Webb · Apr 1, 2005

It actually works much better than selenium toner, very little if any smell and delivers beautiful tones to a deep bronze. Has long been my favorite toner,
wish I could find a gallon of it for my own use. Was made and sold by Ansco.
there are several examples of prints toned with it in my gallery. I have very little of it left, and am saving it for that special print I hope to make someday.

Shmoo · Apr 1, 2005

Wow...I guess I'll treat this bottle with the respect it's due. Thanks for the information!

S

fschifano · Apr 2, 2005

Turns out that there is a formula posted for this at http://www.jackspcs.com/flempt.htm . It looks to be a sepia sulfide toner with the addition of selenium. Looks interesting and might be worth a try.

rjr · Apr 2, 2005

First - nice to see jackspcs.com back online.

Second, what a coincidence - this is exactly the formula I dug out on request this morning. Someone asked me to quote the formulation for Agfa 516. I found it in a 1950s publication, "Photochemikalien und ihre Anwendung" by Schloemann, a prominent Agfa employee.

It´s identical but asking to solve the stuff in 100ml of Water and use this stock at 1:30.

Someone claimed this formula is close/identical to the Carbon toner sold by Wolfgang Moersch, Ole says the same and compares that to "old" Viradon in (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

titrisol · Apr 2, 2005

can you put that recip ein the chemical recipes section?

rjr said:
First - nice to see jackspcs.com back online.

Second, what a coincidence - this is exactly the formula I dug out on request this morning. Someone asked me to quote the formulation for Agfa 516. I found it in a 1950s publication, "Photochemikalien und ihre Anwendung" by Schloemann, a prominent Agfa employee.

It´s identical but asking to solve the stuff in 100ml of Water and use this stock at 1:30.

Someone claimed this formula is close/identical to the Carbon toner sold by Wolfgang Moersch, Ole says the same and compares that to "old" Viradon in (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

rjr · Apr 2, 2005

Pablo,

[X] Done.

Charles Webb · Apr 3, 2005

Hey there,
I really appreciate the posting of the Agfa formula. If it works any where close to Ansco's old Flemish I will be very pleased. I hate with much pashion to weigh and mix chemicals, but this one for me will be well worth it!

TPPhotog · Apr 3, 2005

Silly question but will the formula posted reduce the smell of using selenium? Or if not without hijacking the thread is there anything that will give the archiving properties of selenium without the smell?

I don't want to make by pets sick with the smell as I don't have an air extractor and have to use it indoors.

rjr · Apr 3, 2005

T,

well... I guess you won´t notice the Selenium toner´s smell, the polysulfid STINK will take over. ;-)

Do you have a ventilated exhaust in your kitchen that is vented over the roof (and not into your neighbors balcony)? If so, put your trays on the kitchen stove, turn the exhaust on Max and be happy.

Bob F. · Apr 3, 2005

TPPhotog said:
Silly question but will the formula posted reduce the smell of using selenium? Or if not without hijacking the thread is there anything that will give the archiving properties of selenium without the smell?

I don't want to make by pets sick with the smell as I don't have an air extractor and have to use it indoors.

I assume you will get the Hydrogen Sulphide smell instead by using the Flemish toner... not a good swap - especially as hydrogen sulphide is a foggant...

The smell from selenium toner is not too bad - it's only ammonia: there is a stronger smell in most office toilets 1st thing in the morning after the cleaners have been washing the floors.... If it is too objectionable, put the tray on the windowsill of an open window where the wind is blowing out and use it there.

Thiocarbamide based sepia toners are archival and odour free but do cause a colour change of course. Gold toner is also a possibility, but works out at about 25-50p per 8x10...

Cheers, Bob.

Peter Schrager · Apr 4, 2005

Flemish Toner

I have an unopened bottle of this and if anyone wants it just Pm me offline and it's yours.
Regards,Peter

TPPhotog · Apr 4, 2005

Thanks for the info guys. Sadly I only have those tilt double glazed windows and no extractor as this is a rented house, so it sounds like selenium "on the window ledge of an open window where the wind is blowing" is the best option

titrisol · Apr 5, 2005

THANKS!!!
It looks kinda like old-time poly-toner

rjr said:
Pablo,

[X] Done.

Selenium smell? You'll have plenty of sulfur smell to compensate for, no ammoina in this one.

Bob F. · Apr 5, 2005

TPPhotog said:
Thanks for the info guys. Sadly I only have those tilt double glazed windows and no extractor as this is a rented house, so it sounds like selenium "on the window ledge of an open window where the wind is blowing" is the best option

Don't knock it - that's how I mix chemicals when it's too cold to go outside ...

Re' Agfa 516: Tim Rudman's Toning book specifies a similar formula as the toning bath of a two stage toner: i.e. used after a bleaching bath. Wonder if you can substitute thiocarbamide and sodium hydroxide for the sodium sulphide and make an odourless version? Is there a chemist in the house (if Silverprint would pull their finger out and deliver my order, I could try it myself...).

Bob.

Flemish Toner - What is it?

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