Flattening D3200

rubyfalls · Mar 13, 2014

So, I've perused the various threads on curling film, but am looking for an option that doesn't involve using plastic sleeves. Or maybe just looking for magic beans.

To be specific, I have a problem with major curling of D3200 120 film and am hoping there is something else I can try, either drying or storage, to remedy this.

FWIW, I use drop-in folders, not plastic sleeves. I prefer to s-word right after drying (less debris). And I don't cut until I s-word.

Thanks, dear wizards of APUG, as always...

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Anon Ymous · Mar 13, 2014

Try inserting it at the film reel, but emulsion side out and leave it there for a day or so.

pentaxuser · Mar 13, 2014

What's s-word? I have never had this problem with D3200 so can't help

pentaxuser

rubyfalls · Mar 13, 2014

pentaxuser said:
What's s-word? I have never had this problem with D3200 so can't help

pentaxuser

Scan. Shhhhh...

And really?!? Can I ask what you do for developer and fixer? Magic?

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rubyfalls · Mar 13, 2014

Anon Ymous said:
Try inserting it at the film reel, but emulsion side out and leave it there for a day or so.

Do you dry it all the way first? And then pop it in the can to keep dust out? Thanks!

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Anon Ymous · Mar 13, 2014

rubyfalls said:
Do you dry it all the way first? And then pop it in the can to keep dust out? Thanks!

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I've used this method for film that has dried and become curly. It is already dry when reinserted at the reel. I've only had relatively mild cases of curling, but it did a great job at flattening the film. And yes, I put the reels in the tank once loaded.

rubyfalls · Mar 13, 2014

Thanks Anon Ymous! I'll give it a whack.

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Jon Shiu · Mar 13, 2014

I have read it is possible to flatten film using a dry mount press. Never tried it myself.

Jon

darkosaric · Mar 14, 2014

First time I hear that delta 3200 has a curling problem. Where are you drying your film? If possible try to dry in shower cabin, and before put some hot water running, let humidity be your friend. Curling often comes when air is very dry. If you still have curling - maybe just to put film under 2-3 heavy books for day of two?

philipus · Mar 14, 2014

Fwiw, and I realise we're discussing 120 here, I tried putting curled tri-x 35mm under several kilos of books. After two weeks the curl had been reduced a bit and they did scan better. However after a little while the curl gradually came back.

Recently i've put the dried film, rolled emulsion out, in a film can for 24h. That really makes a difference it seems.

If loading the film onto the spiral doesn't help then perhaps try a tighter roll in a 35mm film can? Just a thought.

Xmas · Mar 14, 2014

Try leaving it longer drying on clips before the s-word. Mine wiggles a bit before it is dry and my relative humidity is not that low.

But 120 needs glass carriers for enlarging a stock scanner carrier probably won't work for all film types.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 14, 2014

Interesting that you got the curl to begin with. I don't think I've shot more than 50-100 rolls of D3200-120 in my life, so I don't have huge experience with it, but they always dry flat as a sheet of glass.
They curl while drying, though, as the emulsion and base dry at different rates. But once both sides are completely dry they are a joy to scan because of how flat they are. This is true for me with all Ilford films, but when I process film there's water running, especially when washing the film, which humidifies the air, and that helps flat drying.

What I do with my 35mm Tri-X, which cups really badly when drying (in my darkroom), is to either roll it up emulsion side out in a film developing reel, as has been mentioned by others. Leave it for a day or two - really helps. Or, if I know I won't get to it in a long time, I just put it in my film binder and leave it until I do have time.
You can also sleeve it and roll up the sleeve inside a cylinder of some kind, like a poster tube.

Are you sure your negatives hang until they are actually completely dry? (I don't use a drying cabinet, but they hang for 24 hours).

pentaxuser · Mar 14, 2014

Ah scanning! Thanks. I couldn't quite work out the reference to developer and fixer either in your reply.

My comment about not being able to help was in respect of flattening. I have never found D3200 to have a curl problem so I couldn't offer any solutions to that problem.

Maybe you and I are the victims of the :"Two nations divided by a common language" phenomenon

pentaxuser

rubyfalls · Mar 14, 2014

To all: it is strange to me, as well. All my other ilford films dry perfectly flat.

For background, I dry for at least 24 hours until I'm ready to scan. Then I cut, scan, and store.

And it is VERY dry in my darkroom, so perhaps that is the culprit. What if I put the humidifier in my darkroom overnight and shut the door while they dry?

And pentaxuser - I laughed because I forgot that I frequently say "oh s-word!" instead of the swear word that starts with an "s." Trying to clean up my language!

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Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 14, 2014

rubyfalls said:
To all: it is strange to me, as well. All my other ilford films dry perfectly flat.

For background, I dry for at least 24 hours until I'm ready to scan. Then I cut, scan, and store.

And it is VERY dry in my darkroom, so perhaps that is the culprit. What if I put the humidifier in my darkroom overnight and shut the door while they dry?

And pentaxuser - I laughed because I forgot that I frequently say "oh s-word!" instead of the swear word that starts with an "s." Trying to clean up my language!

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A humidifier might help, unless it's one that will blow air around, which might not be what you want with respect to dust. If the humidifier is the blown kind, then let it run for a while, and turn it off 15 minutes before you hang your film to dry. After the film has hung for about an hour, I'd think it's dry enough that it would be safe to start the humidifier again.

Good luck!

StoneNYC · Mar 14, 2014

I also have curl to my D3200, not awful but not easy either. So now I've switched to HP5+ as long as I'm not going past 3200 and it's much better pushing solution.

Xmas · Mar 14, 2014

The Ilford datasheet says its on a thick base for 120 film so either the data sheet is wrong or Ilford anticipated it might be curly and tried to address.

Maybe Simon will help but not noticed mine (from some time ago though) curl.

rubyfalls · Mar 16, 2014

Picked up a small humidifier (one of the warm water types) and am going to test it out with two rolls I shot last night at our very swinging mid-century culinary horrors party. Ha.

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rubyfalls · Mar 16, 2014

Okay - had a mad idea whilst making cookies. I'm going to clip the ends of the drying rolls to wooden popsicle sticks. Will update with results.

StoneNYC · Mar 17, 2014

rubyfalls said:
Okay - had a mad idea whilst making cookies. I'm going to clip the ends of the drying rolls to wooden popsicle sticks. Will update with results.

done it, doesn't help.... lol

pentaxuser · Mar 17, 2014

As it is 120 film the following is worth trying: Get hold of, if you can, the heavyweight wide metal film clips. These span the width of 120 better preventing curl at the edges. It might even be possible to place two clips on the bottom. The sheer weight and time ( at least 12 hours) does seem to pull all tendency to curl out of the film.

As I have said it's not a big problem in the U.K. but since getting these heavyweight clips my 120 film seems to come out of the drying cabinet even straighter.

Don't use any heat by the way. Time and ambient temp is the best combination.

pentaxuser

Jaf-Photo · Mar 17, 2014

I have two tricks for curly film.

First I put the negatives in sleaves and press them in a large folio book. I use Sebastiao Salgados Genesis in the futile hope that some of his magic will rub off on my negatives.

Then I scan using the special film holder and glass from Better Scanning. The glass insert presses the film flat for a sharp and uniform scan.

Simon R Galley · Mar 17, 2014

ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 is coated on a different and 'unique' base but this has nothing to do with addressing 'curl' ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 has not changed at all since its launch and in common will all ILFORD films has excellent drying characteristics.

So I have no idea....

I use lots of ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 120 processed usually in our Refrema and apart from a slight 'positive' curl of 5mm or so never had an issue....... I do not scan though, I only print.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

rubyfalls · Mar 17, 2014

Simon R Galley said:
ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 is coated on a different and 'unique' base but this has nothing to do with addressing 'curl' ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 has not changed at all since its launch and in common will all ILFORD films has excellent drying characteristics.

So I have no idea....

I use lots of ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 120 processed usually in our Refrema and apart from a slight 'positive' curl of 5mm or so never had an issue....... I do not scan though, I only print.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Thanks Simon! I don't have this issue with any other ilford film. And not every roll of d3200 does this for me. I am thinking it is the fact that my darkroom is VERY dry. And possibly the way I have my drying rolls weighted. Scanning is a mandatory (for me) step in my workflow, so I will keep tinkering because d3200 is one of my favorites and worth the work. The fact that only a handful of others have this issue makes me confident that I can eliminate it.

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rubyfalls · Mar 17, 2014

Simon R Galley said:
ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 is coated on a different and 'unique' base but this has nothing to do with addressing 'curl' ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 has not changed at all since its launch and in common will all ILFORD films has excellent drying characteristics.

So I have no idea....

I use lots of ILFORD DELTA Professional 3200 120 processed usually in our Refrema and apart from a slight 'positive' curl of 5mm or so never had an issue....... I do not scan though, I only print.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Thanks Simon! I don't have this issue with any other ilford film. And not every roll of d3200 does this for me. I am thinking it is the fact that my darkroom is VERY dry. And possibly the way I have my drying rolls weighted. Scanning is a mandatory (for me) step in my workflow, so I will keep tinkering because d3200 is one of my favorites and worth the work. The fact that only a handful of others have this issue makes me confident that I can eliminate it.

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Flattening D3200

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