Flash vs Tungsten

Soeren · Apr 18, 2005

Hi all
I browsed through the Impex catalogue the other day. They have some cheap photolamps ( 149/kit). Flashstrobes are so expensive so I was wondering "Hmm should I get a kit ?" I think the heat and power problems are solved with the daylight bulbs/tubes but how about output ? Will a set of photolamps deliver the goods ? Are there other significant differences ?
Regards Søren

modafoto · Apr 18, 2005

Soeren said:
Hi all
I browsed through the Impex catalogue the other day. They have some cheap photolamps ( 149/kit). Flashstrobes are so expensive so I was wondering "Hmm should I get a kit ?" I think the heat and power problems are solved with the daylight bulbs/tubes but how about output ? Will a set of photolamps deliver the goods ? Are there other significant differences ?
Regards Søren

I use strobes (400 watts Multiblitzes) and like them a lot because of the limited heat they put off and the power of these flashes.
But the kit you have found I would get, too! With the Daylight bulbs heat wouldn't be an issue if you work in a ventilated room. But the output I don't know about.

I find both types of light appealing as flash will give you more power, but it is more difficult to match with the available light. Floods will generate more heat and is less powerful but will give you a "What-you-see-is-what-you-get"-feeling when matching it with available light.

The kit you found may be finding it's way to my studio, too as I can find use for both strobes and floods.

Morten

Soeren · Apr 18, 2005

Morten, can I have a key to your studio
Cheers Søren

modafoto · Apr 18, 2005

Soeren said:
Morten, can I have a key to your studio
Cheers Søren

You are welcome to shoot in my studio someday if you come to Århus. Then I brew some good coffee for you, too.
This goes for all of you, but some are too far away from Denmark to come visit me. But everyone are welcome

Another thing regarding the flash vs. floods. If you get floods you can meter with your camera's meter instead of a handheld flash meter. This furthermore brings down the price.

Morten

Soeren · Apr 18, 2005

modafoto said:
You are welcome to shoot in my studio someday if you come to Århus. Then I brew some good coffee for you, too.
This goes for all of you, but some are too far away from Denmark to come visit me. But everyone are welcome

Another thing regarding the flash vs. floods. If you get floods you can meter with your camera's meter instead of a handheld flash meter. This furthermore brings down the price.

Morten

Thanks for the invitation Morten. Considering the railprices the ADOX-kit would pay itself in a couple of weeks though
Oh yes the metering. But I do have a handheld meter and my MF don't have a built-in.
What happened to the Rodinal bottle in your avatar ?
Don't tell me you broke it
Does any one know about the output from these things ?
Søren

removed account4 · Apr 18, 2005

soeren -

i am not sure if you can get lowel lights in DK, but they are a pretty good alternative to expensive lighting. i don't mean the hot lights like the tota or omni lights, but the original lowel light ... i think now it is called the "L light". they sell tehm one at a time, if you want just a single or 2 lights, or they sell in kits (box, receptical, barn doors/clamp and sometimes the flood lights) for not very much money and don't take tungston bulbs, but floods. i have bought a few of these kits (new they are kind of $$-ey )for less than 100$ (10 lights). i use one of them when i print on azo

http://www.lowel.com/lowellight/lowel-light_e.html#info

i used them pretty often when i had a studio space - i liked the ability to see exactly what the light was doing all the time, but these days since i have the "basement studio" and shoot mostly on location, it is a little tougher ... i use one of two things one or two 300 ws monoblocks (novatron m300 ) or one head of lumedyne 224. i kind of like the lumdeyne best because it really really portable and now it has a resister sort of thing that allows you to adjust the light output by 7 stops (between 200 WS and 3 WS ) with a "trim" device to give you inbetween stops too .. so if you only want a itsy bit of light or a bunch of light, it does the trick

not sure if this helps at all ..

-john

blansky · Apr 18, 2005

Coming at this from another point of view, I think a lot of people especially newbies shooting portraits think that they need a bunch of lights to get good work. They see pros have 4 or 6 lites and think that they will need that too. Well maybe, but starting out most people don't have a clue where to put them anyways and if they started with just ONE, they could learn to light, and later on they could add more.

With that in mind you can pick up used monolights for probably half what they cost new. It's a great way to start and after a while you can have a set of great lites and not a closet full of cheap stuff that you bought once because of price.

Michael

John Koehrer · Apr 18, 2005

Soeren,
The only problem you may have with tungsten lighting is color balance with color film. The daylight lamps burn @~5K kelvin & have a rather short life ~4hrs. color temp shifts lower as the bulb ages. If you're shooting B&W color temp isn't a factor.

david b · Apr 18, 2005

I just sold a set of speedotrons that needed a power pack for ONE calumet travelite that plugs directly into the wall.

It is a great light that is highly adjustable and I have even used the 250w modeling light by itself.

Start with one light....you'll be much happier.

rbarker · Apr 18, 2005

Lighting-kit choice is a question that faces everyone - except those who choose to shoot only with natural light. And, many have gone through several kits before arriving at something that works for them - essentially, wasting a lot of money along the way (even though the interim solutions seemed economical at the time of purchase).

Tungsten lights can be inexpensive, but tend not to be very practical for people work. Once you get enough light that enables you to shoot at reasonable exposures, the light is too intense for people to open their eyes, and their skin starts to darken, crack and peel.

Thus, my suggestion would be really give some thought to what you shoot, and how you want to shoot it (e.g. at what apertures, with which light modifiers, etc.), before taking the plunge. Then, decide on a product line with which you can grow over time as the budget allows.

Soeren · Apr 19, 2005

rbarker said:
Lighting-kit choice is a question that faces everyone - except those who choose to shoot only with natural light. And, many have gone through several kits before arriving at something that works for them - essentially, wasting a lot of money along the way (even though the interim solutions seemed economical at the time of purchase).

I have only limited space so a High output flash system won't be the ting for me Im sure. You may be right bout the money wast though. That I have experienced many times in my "Photographic carreer"

Tungsten lights can be inexpensive, but tend not to be very practical for people work. Once you get enough light that enables you to shoot at reasonable exposures, the light is too intense for people to open their eyes, and their skin starts to darken, crack and peel. .

Ouch, I can imagine the smell "who ordered pork roast ?"

Thus, my suggestion would be really give some thought to what you shoot, and how you want to shoot it (e.g. at what apertures, with which light modifiers, etc.), before taking the plunge. Then, decide on a product line with which you can grow over time as the budget allows.

I was thinking I would use "studioligths" for some Portraits, and pictures of my wife when her stomach gets bigger. Hopefully I'll be able to make some nudes too. for the time being I was thinking 1 or max 2 lights since I know I can't handle more at a time as a newbie. My first wish was a strobe at
200-250 Ws with 4 stop stepless output regulator (or whatever it's called)
The "hotlight" idea appeared because they are so cheap and if they can deliver enough light (is 150W enough ?) they coul be the answer.
Since I'm planning on B&W only, lighttemp wont be a problem but I plan to use the daylight tubes anyway because they produce less heat.
I might be given a tungsten lamp from a closeddown photoclub, if they can find the piece that hold the thing together
Does anyone know how to calculate the expose from the W when working with these things ? which F-stop @ 1/60sec can I use with a 150W or a 250W lamp ?
Regards Søren

modafoto · Apr 19, 2005

Soeren said:
Ouch, I can imagine the smell "who ordered pork roast ?"

Modeller med sprød svær...mums

Ole · Apr 19, 2005

Soeren said:
Does anyone know how to calculate the expose from the W when working with these things ? which F-stop @ 1/60sec can I use with a 150W or a 250W lamp ?
Regards Søren

Eh - no. The variation is too big. There's no usable correlation. It depends on the distance as well, of course...

Morten - does latex go shiny when it melts?

modafoto · Apr 19, 2005

Ole said:
Morten - does latex go shiny when it melts?

Hmmm...I have never tried to expose latex to high temps, but PVC will melt and may burst into flames if too hot. Therefore I use flash.

Soeren · Apr 19, 2005

Ole said:
Morten - does latex go shiny when it melts?

You can buy liquid latex to paint on your subject. When liquid it is shiny.
Søren

Soeren · Apr 19, 2005

Soeren said:
You can buy liquid latex to paint on your subject. When liquid it is shiny.
Søren

HEEY STOP
youre making me participate in treadjacking my own tread
Søren

modafoto · Apr 19, 2005

Ok....back to....what was it...?

Yeah, flash and floods!

Ole · Apr 19, 2005

Soeren said:
You can buy liquid latex to paint on your subject. When liquid it is shiny.
Søren

As a side note (yet another one), that stuff is great for patching small holes in camera bellows. Use the black variety, and remember to put polish or talcum on when dry, before folding the bellows.

rbarker · Apr 19, 2005

Soeren said:
. . . Does anyone know how to calculate the expose from the W when working with these things ? which F-stop @ 1/60sec can I use with a 150W or a 250W lamp ?

I agree with Ole - there are too many variables involved to calculate this reliably. It dpends on the efficiency of the light itself, the nature of the enclosure/reflector, etc., etc., etc. The simple method is to buy a bulb at your local hardware store and meter it. But, I suspect you'll be shocked at how little light they actually put out for photographic purposes. I can get f/5.6 @ 1/125 out of my 650W Arri fresnel, but no one can bear to face the light, let alone open their eyes.

I think you'll find that anything above 100W, or so, starts to get "uncomfortable" for the subject - if it is strongly directional (e.g. the conical-shaped standard "flood" or "spot" bulbs from the hardware). A larger, more diffuse source tends to be easier on the subject. For inanimate objects, the bright Halogen garage lights work reasonably well. In DIY terms for people, you might think about a home-built bank of 4' fluorescent tubes - tricky for color work, but not a problem for B&W.

Soeren · Apr 20, 2005

rbarker said:
I agree with Ole - there are too many variables involved to calculate this reliably. It dpends on the efficiency of the light itself, the nature of the enclosure/reflector, etc., etc., etc. The simple method is to buy a bulb at your local hardware store and meter it. But, I suspect you'll be shocked at how little light they actually put out for photographic purposes. I can get f/5.6 @ 1/125 out of my 650W Arri fresnel, but no one can bear to face the light, let alone open their eyes.

I think you'll find that anything above 100W, or so, starts to get "uncomfortable" for the subject - if it is strongly directional (e.g. the conical-shaped standard "flood" or "spot" bulbs from the hardware). A larger, more diffuse source tends to be easier on the subject. For inanimate objects, the bright Halogen garage lights work reasonably well. In DIY terms for people, you might think about a home-built bank of 4' fluorescent tubes - tricky for color work, but not a problem for B&W.

Not exactly good news. Well I am recieving a lamp today and I will order a daylight bulp at Brenner or Impex soon so I can try it out myself.
Thanks for all your replies and Morten let us know if you get a set of those hotlamps, how they work etc.
Regards Søren

Soeren · Apr 21, 2005

Well I got an old tungsten lamp yesterday with a 500W bulp. Measuring with my sekonic at approx 1m I got f/4.0 + a bit, 1/60sec @ 100ISO. Ouch, the thing generate more heat than light and the lady of the house didn't like the idea of posing for me so close to that toaster. Thank god I didn't throw money after the kit after all, now I can safe for a cheap 200-250Ws flash instead
Regards Søren

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