Flash or 3200 Film?

rmjranch · Jan 9, 2017

Going on a trip to see my newborn grandchild. I shoot 35mm B&W, Nikon F6, either Acros 100 or Delta 3200. Should I buy a flash? Not a problem to spend the money, but never have liked the flash results. Have not shot flash in years. Thoughts?

Skiver101 · Jan 9, 2017

rmjranch said:
Going on a trip to see my newborn grandchild. I shoot 35mm B&W, Nikon F6, either Acros 100 or Delta 3200. Should I buy a flash? Not a problem to spend the money, but never have liked the flash results. Have not shot flash in years. Thoughts?

Firstly...Congratulations

''Not a problem to spend the money'' - then try them all.
It's a win-win !!

JP

tezzasmall · Jan 9, 2017

I love the grain structure of 3200 film and for taking a baby pic or two by natural light I would use that film and leave the flash at home.

Terry S

tedr1 · Jan 9, 2017

Flash well done by someone who has the right equipment and knowledge can be excellent. From what you have told us about the circumstances I would use the fast film and available light.

flavio81 · Jan 9, 2017

rmjranch said:
Going on a trip to see my newborn grandchild. I shoot 35mm B&W, Nikon F6, either Acros 100 or Delta 3200. Should I buy a flash? Not a problem to spend the money, but never have liked the flash results. Have not shot flash in years. Thoughts?

Is this inside the hospital? A f1.4 lens with ISO 400 film would be my choice, to be honest.

HiHoSilver · Jan 9, 2017

Using Flash well remains in my future. 'Got much better after some trips through Rockwell's articles on it, but would still have more confidence in fast film. Your F6 should give all that can be had w/ little distraction - which will give more than figiting w/ unfamiliar gear. I quickly found that fast/spontaneous shots w/ flash seem to not exist w/ my present gear/skill level. Go have fun and enjoy. Fretting about the unfamiliar can happen on less critical times/places.

Luckless · Jan 9, 2017

Do you like using flash? Do you enjoy crafting and controlling light? Will you have time to setup and arrange things for formal flash shooting, or would you be using it in a more run-and-gun style?

Having more gear with you does offer more options than if you don't have it at all.

A few lightweight stands and a few different sized multipurpose reflectors are also a very valuable bit of kit to consider regardless of whether you add some flash gear back into your mix. (Even better than lightweight stands are relatives or family friends who take directions well. But they can be in short supply sadly.)

If you do bring flash gear, then nothing really stops you from bringing along a few rolls of different films, and shooting in different styles. In my mind kids tend to be a subject worth the extra film to take lots of shots with. Nothing says you have to print everything at the end of the day, but I like having more frames to pick from and choose the best of them. Shoot a roll or two with one film type, switch to another film and shooting style.

Babies have very annoying habits of not always playing nice when you point a camera at them. They'll often do something just after you take a photo, or stop doing something the moment you point a camera at them. They clearly know what's up, and are trolling you. Like Chickadees.

Alan Gales · Jan 9, 2017

You will want lots of pictures so why not do both?

Make sure you buy a flash with a bounce head. Also get a reflector for it. It also helps to hold the flash off camera.

If you really get into it you can buy a dirt cheap set of Novations off Craigslist or Ebay. They will come with umbrellas. Ken Rockwell has good information on them like HiHoSilver suggests. It just takes a little bit of practice to get decent photos.

Alan Gales · Jan 9, 2017

Alan Gales said:
You will want lots of pictures so why not do both?

Make sure you buy a flash with a bounce head. Also get a reflector for it. It also helps to hold the flash off camera.

If you really get into it you can buy a dirt cheap set of Novations off Craigslist or Ebay. They will come with umbrellas. Ken Rockwell has good information on them like HiHoSilver suggests. It just takes a little bit of practice to get decent photos.

Enjoy that grandchild!

Huss · Jan 9, 2017

I use a Nikon SB500 with my F6. If you tilt the flash head up and use a diffuser you will get wonderful results. Using this set up and Across 100 will allow you to take full advantage of that film and you will be able to use stopped down apertures.
If it was me, I would use the flash with Across 100 AND shoot some 3200 film w/o flash. Why one or the other?

Agulliver · Jan 9, 2017

Personally I prefer not to use a flash. I'm also a fan of ultra high speed film and of available light photography. If you find you have not been happy with the results of using a flash in the past, or simply don't feel confident with one, that won't change overnight.

Will you have some control over the light? Or where your grandchild is positioned...eg can you open or close curtains, ask the child to be moved or held somewhere that suits photography?

Under decent home lighting, with some additional from the window, Delta 3200 should be great.

Ko.Fe. · Jan 9, 2017

Newborn doesn't care for flash. Once they could keep thier head straight some of them are very sensitive for flash. Some not all of them.
But I don't think 3200 is needed at all. 400 is enough, newborn don't need 1/250, you could get them with 1/30, 1/60 and 50mm lens.

Sirius Glass · Jan 9, 2017

Newborns' eyes cannot adapt to a flash or strobe and the bright light causes pain. We have had several APUG threads about that. Even bounce flash it too much for newborns. When my grandson was born, in the hospital my son-in-law used a digital camera phone and my grandson screamed and cried for quite a while. The nurses heard the screams and came running in. My son-in-law was told to turn off the flash. So do not use any flash or strobe, use natural light only and ISO 400, 800, 1600 or 3200 film.

Huss · Jan 9, 2017

Thanks for the tip Sirius, did not think of that.

film_man · Jan 9, 2017

Well I have a new born. 5 weeks he is now. I have used flash and there was no screaming or crying, in fact there was hardly any indication that he noticed. Which is the same as with my other son, from what I remember when he was a new born. Now, that is bounced flashed and I was still using 400/800 film, f/2.8 so it is fairly gentle. I mean think about it, if you take a baby to a studio for photos, what do they use? Flash, strobes, big lights. If you think about it, daylight is f/16 at 1/125 with ISO 100 film, babies have to cope with it too. Anyway, each baby is different so I can't speak for every one of them.

In any case, flash done right is great. Fast film and wide open done right is also great. The one thing that is not great, a flash on the camera and blasting away straight to the subject. In general, when I use flash I either bounce it off a large wall or I use it off camera, I bought a pair of PocketWizard triggers and they are great. Small, reasonably priced, reliable and work with any camera. I stick one on the camera, hook the other on to the SB80DX and off we go.

Luckless · Jan 9, 2017

The duration of the flash is very important, almost more so than the overall power.

The 'flashes' used on the majority of phones are not flashes, but rather high intensity LEDs. They are very long duration high intensity light, and generally pointing straight at the subject from a small near pinpoint source. This is a very harsh and unpleasant feeling, and made especially so in babies when their eyes are still learning to adjust.

Actual flashes have a much shorter duration. and when combined with spreading the light over a large surface before it hits the subjects eyes, can be a very gentle and easily unnoticed thing. The beeps and even the whine of recharge can be more upsetting to newborns in my experience. (Don't forget that they still hear frequencies many users here can't even remember dreaming of anymore.)

Of course a 600w/s flash on full power and point blank would be 'not a good idea', but think your lighting through, and carefully consider your power levels and relative lighting size, and you're rather unlikely to be noticed by a newborn. Watch their reactions carefully, adjust or stop as needed.

Sirius Glass · Jan 9, 2017

film_man said:
Well I have a new born. 5 weeks he is now. I have used flash and there was no screaming or crying, in fact there was hardly any indication that he noticed. Which is the same as with my other son, from what I remember when he was a new born. Now, that is bounced flashed and I was still using 400/800 film, f/2.8 so it is fairly gentle. I mean think about it, if you take a baby to a studio for photos, what do they use? Flash, strobes, big lights. If you think about it, daylight is f/16 at 1/125 with ISO 100 film, babies have to cope with it too. Anyway, each baby is different so I can't speak for every one of them.

In any case, flash done right is great. Fast film and wide open done right is also great. The one thing that is not great, a flash on the camera and blasting away straight to the subject. In general, when I use flash I either bounce it off a large wall or I use it off camera, I bought a pair of PocketWizard triggers and they are great. Small, reasonably priced, reliable and work with any camera. I stick one on the camera, hook the other on to the SB80DX and off we go.

When you take a baby to a photo studio, the baby is not a newborn. I stated newborn for a reason. I did not say a one month old or a six month old, I said "newborn" which has a very specific meaning.

canvassy · Jan 9, 2017

My fiance just had our baby this week, she's 3 days old now. I brought my Olympus OM20 and 50 1.4 lens, and some HP5+. I love the results from pushing HP5+ so I was prepared to push it a few stops, but I ended up shooting the roll at box speed.

I would probably bring some 400 ISO film and some of the 3200 for shots at night, and you should be perfectly fine with those.

Congrats on the grandchild!

Alan W · Jan 9, 2017

Tri x shot at 800 looks just as good as Tri x at 400.Kodak even recommend the same development time-in d76 at least.A fast lens and a good camera and you won't need a flash.

John Koehrer · Jan 9, 2017

Simply bouncing the light will give you a soft light & get away from that on camera look.
Whether it's from the ceiling or a nearby wall.
You're using B&W IF you were using color you would have to be aware of the wall colorl.

*Not a real fan of 3200 speed film

Cholentpot · Jan 9, 2017

400 and a nice window ought do it.

Alan Gales · Jan 9, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Newborns' eyes cannot adapt to a flash or strobe and the bright light causes pain. We have had several APUG threads about that. Even bounce flash it too much for newborns. When my grandson was born, in the hospital my son-in-law used a digital camera phone and my grandson screamed and cried for quite a while. The nurses heard the screams and came running in. My son-in-law was told to turn off the flash. So do not use any flash or strobe, use natural light only and ISO 400, 800, 1600 or 3200 film.

Thanks Sirius. I did not think of that. The OP did say newborn!

Ixnay the lashfay!

film_man · Jan 10, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
When you take a baby to a photo studio, the baby is not a newborn. I stated newborn for a reason. I did not say a one month old or a six month old, I said "newborn" which has a very specific meaning.

I understand perfectly well what "newborn" means. There is nothing stopping you taking the baby to the studio when the baby is a few days old. Or they can come to your house too (obviously with flash, not big lights).

RichardJack · Jan 10, 2017

Neither. Buy yourself a DSLR even a cheap one. If your committed to film, and flash is permitted use your best lens and some Portra400. It's not something that you want to screw up and regret. I would use one of my Nikon bodies with my 85mm f1.4 or 50mm f1.2 w/o flash if flash were not an option. ISO3200 film will be grainy as hell.

Vilk · Jan 10, 2017

rmjranch said:
...never have liked the flash results. [...] Thoughts?

my feelings exactly, for the past thirty years or so... until this--

Dead Link Removed

https://www.flickr.com/photos/vilk/31053649754/ - and others in that stream, all handheld; fun, dynamic way to work, following, not posing the model... pretty much what you're looking at here

no affliation, no business pushing rogue specifically, any other brand would do as well

Flash or 3200 Film?

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