flash modification help

turls · Oct 16, 2016

Please could someone tell me if its possible to adapt a Zeiss ikon nettar to fire my studio strobes via a yongnuo 600tx trigger ??? or any other means possible to fire a speedlite ??
Many thanks Nick

shutterfinger · Oct 16, 2016

I am not familiar with either your camera or flash trigger, I did look them up on line.
The Nettar's shutter should have a PC socket and a M-X selector near by. Connecting your studio strobes via a PC cable with the selector set to X should fire the strobe(s) when the shutter is full open. With the selector set to M the strobe(s) should fire 15 to 20 milliseconds before the shutter reaches full open so the electronic flash will not expose the film due to the fast duration of the flash. If the shutter has the PC socket but does not fire a flash in either setting the shutter flash contacts need cleaning or the shutter mechanics need servicing. The Compur shutter requires partial disassembly to clean the contacts.
To use a hot shoe flash trigger use a hot shoe to PC socket adapter.

Kirks518 · Oct 16, 2016

As long as your Nettar has an X-sync, you should be able to. You'll need a sync-cord fired hotshoe, (click for B&H link) and then you can mount your trigger on that, and your receivers on your speedlites. There are a bunch of ways it can be done, but that's pretty much the most straight-forward approach (IMO). Then you'll need to figure out the sync speed.

shutterfinger · Oct 16, 2016

Kirks518 said:
Then you'll need to figure out the sync speed.

Leaf shutters such as the Compur and Prontor used on this type of Zeiss camera sync at all speeds on X, 1/30 or slower for flash bulbs is recommended but faster speeds can be used with the risk of reduced exposure.

Kirks518 · Oct 16, 2016

Whoops, you are without a doubt correct shutterfinger. I was recently doing something similar with a Canon IIb, so I had sync speed on the brain.

Larry the sailor · Oct 17, 2016

I've been playing around with my Yongnuo 600EX-RT with my manual cameras and have not been able to get it to trigger. I can trigger my speedlights with a sync cord cord and use them in optical slave mode though.

Kirks518 · Oct 17, 2016

Larry, have you tried the sync-cord triggered hotshoe that I linked to (or similar)? I've been able to use my YN-622 on just about everything I've tried using that adapter.

GRHazelton · Oct 17, 2016

shutterfinger said:
Leaf shutters such as the Compur and Prontor used on this type of Zeiss camera sync at all speeds on X, 1/30 or slower for flash bulbs is recommended but faster speeds can be used with the risk of reduced exposure.

There is very little risk of reduced exposure with a leaf shutter on X at any shutter speed if using electronic flash, since the strobe flash is typically far shorter than the fastest speed of a leaf shutter. Now, higher shutter speeds will reduce exposure from ambient light, which is often a good thing. Leaf shutters offer much more flexibility in mixed lighting than do focal plane shutters.

If you are using flash bulbs with a leaf shutter, use the M sync position, then you can use any shutter speed. BUT, IIRC you will have to deal with the shutter at faster speeds using only some of the available light from the bulb so some adjustment of the f-stop setting may be necessary. Best check with the camera's manual.

Now, if you happen to have FP flash bulbs available, and FP sync on your focal plane shutter - not common on newer cameras - you can use any and all shutter speeds! Again you may have to alter the f stop at faster shutter speeds. See the camera manual. But good luck on finding FP bulbs!

turls · Oct 17, 2016

Thank you everyone for all your replies, kirks 518 thank you for the link, i shall look to purchase one of those. I did just try my pc cable direct to my studio strobes and it fired them no worries, i haven't got an m or x on my shutter ring , but it did just fire on the 100th of a second, and i was able to see the flash whilst looking through the back of the camera through the lens with a large aperture , so hopefully it will sync ok at this speed ,and i do have a light meter to set the f stop.I'm also guessing i'd be better using ilford fp4 iso 125, rather than the hp 5 400 iso??
Thank you Nick

turls · Oct 17, 2016

Sorry should've said my lens is a novar anastigmat , velio , 1;4.5 f=75mm

shutterfinger · Oct 17, 2016

The lens is irrelevant. The Nettar series of cameras use two different body styles and several different shutters.
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/zeiss_ikon.htm
The shutter name is important for this inquiry as it the shutter that provided the flash sync.
Now if you are seeing the flash through the lens at a large aperture then the shutter is at X sync, if you were seeing the shutter blades, full or part, then the sync would be set incorrectly or there is a shutter malfunction.

Larry the sailor · Oct 19, 2016

Kirks518 said:
Larry, have you tried the sync-cord triggered hotshoe that I linked to (or similar)? I've been able to use my YN-622 on just about everything I've tried using that adapter.

I misspoke a bit. What I can't get to work is the YN-E3-RT wireless trigger. The flash units will trigger off the PC/hotshoe adapter just fine and work in optical slave but so far I haven't been able to get the radio function to work this way.

MattKing · Oct 19, 2016

This is a guess - so be warned...

I have a feeling that these wireless radio triggers transmitters use a very low voltage and very little current in the circuit that connects with the camera.

With modern digital cameras, and their low voltage/low current triggering circuits, they work fine.

Whereas with older, mechanical shutters that maybe haven't been serviced for decades (if ever) and may have dirty, high resistance contacts, maybe they don't work as well.

Soeren · Oct 19, 2016

A fair concern though Ive just testet and triggered my godox flash with the X1T trigger on my zeiss ikonta 531/16 and 522/24, zorki 4 and yashica 124G

turls · Oct 19, 2016

Hi Soeren , i ve just seen your post and see you have a zeiss and also a yashica mat 124g ,, tell me what the Yashica like compared to the other ??? I'm really thinking of getting one for xmas , or I'm thinking i need to save a bit more and going for something else , on my zeiss there is no focusing screen so its all a bit of a guess and i;m really missing not having that control , thanks any way nick ,

shutterfinger · Oct 19, 2016

Larry the sailor said:
I misspoke a bit. What I can't get to work is the YN-E3-RT wireless trigger. The flash units will trigger off the PC/hotshoe adapter just fine and work in optical slave but so far I haven't been able to get the radio function to work this way.

http://www.hkyongnuo.com/e-detaily.php?ID=337
This is a Canon dedicated transmitter and as such may not work with any other camera system. Your only hope is M mode. What hot shoe adapter are you using? The adapter needs to have a similar pin layout as the cameras hot shoe/the radio trigger hot shoe connector.

shutterfinger · Oct 19, 2016

MattKing said:
This is a guess - so be warned...

I have a feeling that these wireless radio triggers transmitters use a very low voltage and very little current in the circuit that connects with the camera.

With modern digital cameras, and their low voltage/low current triggering circuits, they work fine.

Whereas with older, mechanical shutters that maybe haven't been serviced for decades (if ever) and may have dirty, high resistance contacts, maybe they don't work as well.

10k ohm resistor was used in one series of shutter to isolate flash sync contacts to prevent unwanted flash triggering. Corrosion severe enough to prevent flash firing is usually 100 ohms or more. If electronic flash are firing from the flash contacts then the contacts are fine. Flash triggering completes the ground/return circuit of the flash. Modern electronic flash have 6V or less static voltage. Vintage electronic flash had 455V at the sync contact and 1K ohm or higher from corrosion would prevent the flash from firing.

Soeren · Oct 19, 2016

turls said:
Hi Soeren , i ve just seen your post and see you have a zeiss and also a yashica mat 124g ,, tell me what the Yashica like compared to the other ??? I'm really thinking of getting one for xmas , or I'm thinking i need to save a bit more and going for something else , on my zeiss there is no focusing screen so its all a bit of a guess and i;m really missing not having that control , thanks any way nick ,

Apart from a dark screen its a nice camera, light, quiet and delivering good image quality.

Kirks518 · Oct 19, 2016

shutterfinger said:
http://www.hkyongnuo.com/e-detaily.php?ID=337
This is a Canon dedicated transmitter and as such may not work with any other camera system. Your only hope is M mode. What hot shoe adapter are you using? The adapter needs to have a similar pin layout as the cameras hot shoe/the radio trigger hot shoe connector.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as the center pin on the transmitter is the hot pin, it should work with any generic hot shoe. Yes?

MattKing · Oct 19, 2016

shutterfinger said:
10k ohm resistor was used in one series of shutter to isolate flash sync contacts to prevent unwanted flash triggering. Corrosion severe enough to prevent flash firing is usually 100 ohms or more. If electronic flash are firing from the flash contacts then the contacts are fine. Flash triggering completes the ground/return circuit of the flash. Modern electronic flash have 6V or less static voltage. Vintage electronic flash had 455V at the sync contact and 1K ohm or higher from corrosion would prevent the flash from firing.

I don't doubt you are correct.
Can you not forsee a situation where an electronic flash (with a trigger circuit powered by standard batteries) might have sufficient capacity to be triggered by a closing, higher resistance camera circuit, whereas a radio trigger, powered by a much smaller battery intended to last for hundreds or thousands of exposures, might not be able to be triggered by that same high resitance circuit?

shutterfinger · Oct 19, 2016

Kirks518 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as the center pin on the transmitter is the hot pin, it should work with any generic hot shoe. Yes?

Yes, but which is the "center" contact

Kirks518 · Oct 19, 2016

That one I would think

shutterfinger · Oct 19, 2016

Does Canon uphold the "center" contact standard of other makes or do they do something different? I'm not a Canon person. It is possible the radio trigger needs some or all of the other making contact/communicating with the camera for the trigger to work.

Larry the sailor · Oct 19, 2016

I'm still experimenting with the stuff but what I've found playing with my AE-1 and pretty much the same result using the PC to hot shoe adapter with my Yashicamat 124 and Mamiya RB67.
Speed light mounted on the camera Set to "M" mode and radio master, the camera will trip the speed lights physically on the camera or connected via the adapter but will not activate any radio trigger functions to trip the radio slaves. With the YN-E3-RT mounted on the camera or the adapter there is no response, the upstart YN-E3-RT just sits there being all digitally smug about it's refusal to take orders from it's esteemed elders. I'm able to trip the slaves from the RT by pushing the test button so I knew I had them set up correctly.
I also attempt to trip the RT by shorting the center pin as shown in Kirks518's post with no success.
I haven't thrown in the towel yet.

turls · Oct 20, 2016

Larry the sailor how interesting ! please do not give up and let us know if you get to the bottom of this, also please tell me which would i would prefer seeing as it would be my first real mf camera , the rb67 or the mat 124 ??? i love the look of both, but i am on a tight budget. Back to the flash issue I'm hoping to get into the studio soon and i shall just have to use the pc lead direct to the strobe until someone finds an answer to make the wireless trigger work , it does sound like a voltage, resistance issue which there my not be am easy solution.

flash modification help

turls

shutterfinger

Kirks518

shutterfinger

Kirks518

Larry the sailor

Kirks518

GRHazelton

turls

turls

shutterfinger

Larry the sailor

MattKing

Moderator

Soeren

turls

shutterfinger

shutterfinger

Soeren

Kirks518

MattKing

Moderator

shutterfinger

Kirks518

shutterfinger

Larry the sailor

turls

flash modification help

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency