Flash Metering with Rollei 6008i/Hy6

[Pieter12]

I'm pretty sure you can use the 6008i meter for flash with the Master Control unit connected. I can't figure out exactly how. It looks like you have to sacrifice a frame of film to take the measurement...the exact steps don't seem to work for me as laid out in the manual. Has anyone done this, and can you explain what is involved? Also, is it possible to meter non-dedicated flash units with the Hy6?

 

[PeterH_67]

Pieter12
Did you figure it out for the 6008i studio-flash metering?
I have found Rolleiflex documentation, at least for the 6008i and its MasterControl Unit, to be pretty bad. However in the accessories diagram of the 6008i user manual there are spot- and average-reading backs listed [items 97698 and 97700]. I've never seen these items, but maybe they are for studio flash metering when one does not have film in the camera. I can't think of any other use for such backs with the sophisticated metering of the 6008i.
Anyhow, if I figure out how to do studio flash metering with the 6008i & MCU, I will post here.
PeterH

 

[Pieter12]

I have not explored the metering process any more at this point. I just use a flash meter and usually a digital "proof" to check the lighting. But it would really be nice to be able to meter with the camera, as I often use extension tubes for close-up work and I just estimate the metering compensation. And bracket.

 

[wiltw]

Perhaps this will give some insight into the flash metering with Rollei 6008

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/rollei-6008af-masterware-studio-flash-metering.111897/

 

[Pieter12]

Thanks. I think the 6008i uses a slightly different way to meter the flash. My understating is that unlike the AF described in the photo.net post, the 6008i meters the strobe light hitting the film (or film plane if you have the metering back in place) with a set of CDS cells that point at the film rather than the cells that are in the mirror--the ones used for regular metering. But, once again, I haven't really done more testing of the meter system that way.

 

[wiltw]

Thanks. I think the 6008i uses a slightly different way to meter the flash. My understating is that unlike the AF described in the photo.net post, the 6008i meters the strobe light hitting the film (or film plane if you have the metering back in place) with a set of CDS cells that point at the film rather than the cells that are in the mirror--the ones used for regular metering. But, once again, I haven't really done more testing of the meter system that way.

Well, the 6008 used the same SCA system to meter with TTL flash of the day...during actual exposure, the meter read the brightness of the film surface and sent a 'quench' command to turn off the TTL flash output.
So your interpretation of how studio flash metering worked would similarly use the OTF sensor to read the brightness of the studio flash output and convert that to an f/stop value to set on the lens aperture....logical guess. It would make sense that special back was put into place with a reflective surface to read from, so no film would need to be wasted.

 

[PeterH_67]

I just gave the 'studio flash metering' a try, as follows:
1) Connect Master Control Unit (MCU) to body with camera off, battery in.
2) Turn on MCU, scroll down to Flash Settings, scroll right
3) Scroll down to 'Meter'; select <ON>; press enter to invoke the setting.
4) Power-Off camera; Disconnect MCU.
5) Connect a flash (I used a Metz 45 with the SCA 301 standard foot, i.e. non-TTL)
6) Power on camera and flash, set an aperture & shutter speed.
7) Release shutter while looking in the viewfinder.
After the exposure a reading will show in place of the shutter speed, like,
< L = +1 >
where the ‘+’ represents excess light, the integer means a whole stop reading, and a 1/3 or 2/3 stop ‘dot’ convention per aperture and shutter speed for the 6008 LED readouts. Presumably L means light.
When flash power or aperture is adjusted to the right amount, the reading will be
< L = 0 >
Pretty straight forward. But one must have film in the camera. I used a roll of expired film with the multiple exposure on to reduce battery drain as I was experimenting.

Note: If the battery is weak the < L = X: > reading extinguishes very quickly and is replaced by a battery charge warning, < bc = 4 >, after which the set shutter speed returns.

Finally, my guess is that leaving the studio flash metering on when using a TTL flash will cause problems. Maybe somebody else can comment on this.
PeterH

 

[ic-racer]

Just to follow correctly, you are plugging the 6008 Master Control Unit into the Hy6?

 

[Pieter12]

Just to follow correctly, you are plugging the 6008 Master Control Unit into the Hy6?

No. It doesn't connect, and there is nothing in the manual about flash metering with the Hy6. Which I think is a shame because the elements seem to be present to be able to accomplish that.

 

[wiltw]

I just gave the 'studio flash metering' a try
Pretty straight forward. But one must have film in the camera. I used a roll of expired film with the multiple exposure on to reduce battery drain as I was experimenting.

I presume that you could put a piece of film into a spare back, which you could mount onto the body for flash metering purposes. The interlocks between body and back might force a roll of (dead) film to be loaded into the extra back, in order for flash metering to be performed.

 

[Pieter12]

I do have a spare back that doesn't advance evenly that I could dedicate for that purpose. I just have to get around to using the 6008i more often--since I got a Hy6, it doesn't get used as much. But in the studio, I actually like the 6008i a bit better with the more analog dials and controls, and the larger size and weight are not a factor.

 

[PeterH_67]

I presume that you could put a piece of film into a spare back, which you could mount onto the body for flash metering purposes. The interlocks between body and back might force a roll of (dead) film to be loaded into the extra back, in order for flash metering to be performed.

The camera will want to advance to the 1st frame of course. But you would want that anyway for studio flash metering so the OTF sensor will be reading off film and not roll paper. I suppose if you had only one back you could test lighting setup with a dead roll then swap in a fresh roll. Will be more convenient with a spare back and/or at least a pre-loaded insert of fresh film.

 

[Pieter12]

That is where the metering back comes in handy. I have never seen one, but it seems like a simple cover for the camera back that sits at the film plane.

 

[PeterH_67]

seems like a simple cover for the camera back that sits at the film plane.

Yes. Although it would likely have elec. contacts for the film speed, that the back is attached, etc.

 

[ic-racer]

I always wondered if these metering backs were nothing more than the rear body protectors with circle or square on them.

 

[wiltw]

I always wondered if these metering backs were nothing more than the rear body protectors with circle or square on them.

View attachment 286436

Likely, the backs have necessary interlocks to fool the camera into thinking there is

• back is mounted, darkslide is removed
• film advanced to fresh frame
• ISO setting for meter

 

[Pieter12]

Likely, the backs have necessary interlocks to fool the camera into thinking there is

• back is mounted, darkslide is removed
• film advanced to fresh frame
• ISO setting for meter

Also it is probably positioned at the film plane and have some sort of paint or coating that reflects like a gray card or film emulsion.

 

[ic-racer]

Likely, the backs have necessary interlocks to fool the camera into thinking there is

• back is mounted, darkslide is removed

  No

• film advanced to fresh frame

  No

• ISO setting for meter

  No, the ISO is set on the FM-1

 

[wiltw]

• No
• No
• No, the ISO is set on the FM-1

So the body fires the flash to meter the light, in spite of the absence of those interlocks that ordinarily exist to prevent use F-up?!

 

[wiltw]

Reading the user manual helps to understand the flash function of the 6008. With regard to "Preflash, Manual Aperture Control'

"Preflash (manual aperture control) First apply the prefl ash custom function (“SF PrE“) to switch 31, then switch this on. See “Custom functions“. The preflash mode is based on the spot sensor incorporated in the refl ex mirror. Therefore position the subject to be metered in the center of the focusing screen for optimum exposure. Pressing the shutter release will set the working aperture and initiate a release cycle without actual exposure or fi lm advance. The light balance displays the exposure value determined. Vary the aperture or the flash output and repeat the preflash until the light is balanced, that is, until only the large central line is visible. If the reading is away from correct exposure by no more than 1 EV (light balance should not be blinking!), proper exposure may be determined without renewed metering, by simply varying the f-stop. If the difference exceeds 1 EV, be sure to repeat the reading, since the metering range has been exceeded and subsequent adjustment is impossible. Finally, use switch 31 to terminate the custom-function setting. To ensure proper metering, be sure to avoid stray light on the focusing screen. Note: Contrary to TTL fl ash metering, the prefl ash mode is restricted to a fi lm-speed range of ISO 25/15° - 800/27° and is not available in any of the automatic exposure modes. In this case, the display will read “no Auto“."​

 

[Pieter12]

Reading the user manual helps to understand the flash function of the 6008. With regard to "Preflash, Manual Aperture Control'

"Preflash (manual aperture control) First apply the prefl ash custom function (“SF PrE“) to switch 31, then switch this on. See “Custom functions“. The preflash mode is based on the spot sensor incorporated in the refl ex mirror. Therefore position the subject to be metered in the center of the focusing screen for optimum exposure. Pressing the shutter release will set the working aperture and initiate a release cycle without actual exposure or fi lm advance. The light balance displays the exposure value determined. Vary the aperture or the flash output and repeat the preflash until the light is balanced, that is, until only the large central line is visible. If the reading is away from correct exposure by no more than 1 EV (light balance should not be blinking!), proper exposure may be determined without renewed metering, by simply varying the f-stop. If the difference exceeds 1 EV, be sure to repeat the reading, since the metering range has been exceeded and subsequent adjustment is impossible. Finally, use switch 31 to terminate the custom-function setting. To ensure proper metering, be sure to avoid stray light on the focusing screen. Note: Contrary to TTL fl ash metering, the prefl ash mode is restricted to a fi lm-speed range of ISO 25/15° - 800/27° and is not available in any of the automatic exposure modes. In this case, the display will read “no Auto“."​

Which manual is this from? My 6008i manual makes no mention of a custom function of this type. Is it for a dedicated flash unit? The only flash metering I see possible is with the flash meter (only for the 6008 Professional) and the Master Control Unit. The item labeled 31 in my manual is for the socket where you connect the MCU.

 

[wiltw]

Which manual is this from? My 6008i manual makes no mention of a custom function of this type. Is it for a dedicated flash unit? The only flash metering I see possible is with the flash meter (only for the 6008 Professional) and the Master Control Unit. The item labeled 31 in my manual is for the socket where you connect the MCU.

I simply went to Rollei website and downloaded the 6008 manual they had available. It might be a good idea to download what they have available on the 6008. What I downloaded has an 08/03 date shown on the last page.

I consulted both 6008 and Hy6 user manual for accessories used with the cameras, but the Master Control Unit is not listed. There is a 64872 LensControl S, which is used in conjunction with the X-ACT2 monorail camera

 

[Pieter12]

I simply went to Rollei website and downloaded the 6008 manual they had available. It might be a good idea to download what they have available on the 6008. What I downloaded has an 08/03 date shown on the last page.

I consulted both 6008 and Hy6 user manual for accessories used with the cameras, but the Master Control Unit is not listed. There is a 64872 LensControl S, which is used in conjunction with the X-ACT2 monorail camera

There are a lot of models of the 6008. The 6008, 6008 Professional, 6008 Integral, 6008 Integral 2, 6008 AF. Plus the original, the 6000. The Master Control is only for the 6008 Integral as far as I know. Ditto, the flash meter FM-1 is only for the 6008 Professional. The Lens Control I think will work with the 6008 Integral, but it is a different animal altogether. I think it may be necessary for the Xact2, but I don't know a whole lot about that set-up, just that it allows you to remotely control Rollei lenses & shutters.

 

[wiltw]

There are a lot of models of the 6008. The 6008, 6008 Professional, 6008 Integral, 6008 Integral 2, 6008 AF. Plus the original, the 6000. The Master Control is only for the 6008 Integral as far as I know.

The 6008 manual which I downloaded from Rollie was for the 6008AF and the Integral 2.
Paging thru all pages, there is no reference or photo of an optional Master Control unit....all flash metering functions were self contained to the camera body (apart from SCA TTL flash metering.

 

[Pieter12]

I have acquired a digital back for my Hy6 and slowly shooting with it in the studio. I discovered with the digital back, after each exposure the grip display shows a meter reading like the flash meter does on the 6008. That is, the deviation from the ideal metered exposure in EV value. Nice. Never noticed this with the film back.