Flash Bulbs?????

nyoung · Sep 4, 2008

I'm expecting delivery of a new - to me - Speed Graphic next week.
This one's coming with a Graflex flash and I'm anticipating trying the thing out with a few #5 bulbs that have found their way home from garage sales etc.

I know there are at least a few souls on this board using flashbulbs and I have a few of questions.

Are the guide numbers on the old bulbs still accurate or have they lost power with age?

I've never seen a bulb explode. Now that they are 30+ years old are they more likely to explode and is there a higher percentage of duds (ones that won't fire)?

Finally, I remember buying red Everyready "Photoflash" batteries for the flash units. What kind of batteries do you use now? Alkaline, rechargable?

Thanks in advance for any tips and advice.

N. Young

Anscojohn · Sep 4, 2008

I expect any D battery combo would work ok. I would not expect the guide numbers to have changed. We would always wet the bulb with a quick lick before putting it in the flash. fwiw. And you cannot, repeat, cannot, use this outfit with flash unless you wear brogans, baggy, pleated sharkskin slacks, and a fedora with a PRESS card stuck in the hat band.

Don Dudenbostel · Sep 4, 2008

I used bulbs for may years including the big guys, #3's and even FF33's.

If you're using them with a leaf shutter then the #5's are fine. If it a focal plane shutter then they won't work. You need a long peak bulb but can't remember the number. I never really used them much.

Sylvania had an indicator on the end of the bulb that indicate if it was good or not. Blue is good and pink is bad. I've had a few pop but never any big deal. Some could blow glass out but there's a protective plastic skin on them to help guard against blow outs. I've seen shields to go over the flash but unless you're in someones face then it shouldn't be any problem if it pops. It was rare this happened. The big danger is one going off in your fingers as you're putting it in the gun. Use a handkerchief of the paper jacket to insert it. I've had 5's and 25's go off in my fingers and it hurts like, lets say,fire. You might take a small piece of fine sand paper and buff the lead solder tip of the bulb that goes into the socket. This always helped insure a good fire. The lead oxidizes and is a source of resistance. All contacts on the bulb and gun must be clean and good fresh alkaline batteries will do.

Guide numbers should be fine if they fire. Most likely they will work fine.

Have fun and remember they are very hot when you fire them and a little time afterwards. Remember too that bulbs can static fire from static electricity and microwave or even RF.

Don Dudenbostel · Sep 4, 2008

I know people did it but I don't think I would lick the end of the bulb. You would be licking lead solder.

iamzip · Sep 4, 2008

I have a couple old cameras that have dedicated flash units requiring bulbs. I have thought of modifying them, or building adaptes, but have also thought of using bulbs. Are there any good sources out there for flashbulbs?

BrianShaw · Sep 4, 2008

Here's my experience -- shooting Speed Graphic with flash bulbs is a real fun experience. Any D-cells in the Graflite holder will work fine. The Number 5 (or equivelent) will be just as bright as they were "in the old days" if they go off. They'll either work or not, but I've had 99% of my NOS bulbs work just fine. I've never had one explode but I suppose the stories persist becuase it has happened in the past. I wouldn't lick a bulb... I don't know why anyone would.

One thing to remember that hasn't been mentioned yet is that when you use bulbs you must be using "M" synch, not X.

Also know that the efficiency of the flash is related to the shutter speed - about 100% of the guide number can be expected at 1/30 second, but less at 1/125, etc. This is because at 1/30 the shutter will be open for the full duration of the flash burn, but at faster speeds the shutter will be open for only a part of the flash burn. In the 1970-era Kodak Professional Photoguides are a really great dial calculator that has these efficiency factors built into the dial.

Here's an example of the "power loss" due to shutter speed (#5 bulb and M sych):
.9 efficiency at 1/25, 1/30
.8 @ 1/50, 1/60
.7 @ 1/100, 1/125
.6 @ 1/200, 1/250
.4 @ 1/400, 1/500

paul ewins · Sep 5, 2008

The guide numbers still seem to be pretty accurate, although you will need to take into various arcane factors. As well as the shutter speed issue mentioned above there is also the size of the reflector vs the size of the bulb. You can get adapters to allow almost any bulb to be used in the graflite flashes, but they were designed for the household sized screwbase bulb.

Number 5 bulbs are still relatively cheap, so I would shoot a bit of film to get a feel for the power of the flash and also the coverage before you go for the unrepeatable shots.

If you want to use the rear (focal plane) shutter you need FP class bulbs, the #6 is the FP equivalent of your #5 bulb.

Lopaka · Sep 5, 2008

Flash bulbs give a different kind of light than electronic flash and give a character to B & W photos that can't be duplicated. Winston Link did many grandiose night shots with assistants setting up huge banks of flashbulbs to light very large areas - and only one chance to get the shot.

Dead Link Removed

Good luck and happy shooting!

Bob

Terence · Sep 5, 2008

Not on a Graflex, but I've had a few M3 bulbs blow. Normally the coating kept it mostly intact, but I've had a few blow shards four to five feet. I've thought about replicating one of the old shields with a thin sheet of Lexan, but I think it would cut down on the guide number significantly.

Wade D · Sep 5, 2008

I haven't used #5's in ages but they put out an awesome amount of light.
Have fun with them!

Moopheus · Sep 5, 2008

Well, this is useful info. I also just got a box of bulbs to try out with my Speed Graphic, for the authentic press-photo look. I don't have a synch cord, though. A standard "household"-type (two-prong) should connect to the tube, yes? The one I have is a Heiland, but I believe the connector is the same. The shutter has a standard PC-type connector.

Ralph Javins · Sep 6, 2008

Good morning;

Yes, the "standard household" electrical connector was used to allow you to "extend" the cable with a regular household 120 VAC power two prong extension cord for a "really off-camera flash." We were a much more adventurous lot back then.

The regular short flash cable had a PC connector on one end and a two prong AC power type plug on the other.

There was also the Number 26 focal plane bulb, and both the 6 and the 26 had their "B" variants ( 6B and 26B ) for "color correcting" the flash for use with daylight type color film. The Guide Numbers were lower for the blue "B" versions.

philsweeney · Sep 6, 2008

I use flash on occasion and though I had been told one cannot meter them with a flash meter my results indicate otherwise, at least with my Luna-pro digital F.

meter tests at 10 feet

#3B f45
22 f32
15 F22.5
#3clear f45.7
#22B

AgX · Sep 6, 2008

Don Dudenbostel said:
The big danger is one going off in your fingers as you're putting it in the gun. Use a handkerchief of the paper jacket to insert it. I've had 5's and 25's go off in my fingers and it hurts like, lets say,fire.

Don,

I repeatedly read such a warning. And it is interesting to hear from someone who actually encounterd such. (Sorry for you.)

But still I don't understand how this could happen.
The igniting circuit must be closed.
Which either means that the synchro-contact has to be engaged. But this is a moment-contact. And in case the firing circuit has got a capacitotor, it will run down quite fast. Thus this will be a rare coincidence.
Or whilst insering the bulb you pressed a manual release, which quite probably would have closed the circuit as long as you pressed it.

Was it the latter what happened to you?

Lopaka · Sep 6, 2008

Flashbulbs are somewhat unstable by nature. It is possible to have a spark jump the circuit in the flash head while inserting the bulb. It has happened to me on more than one occasion. After the first one, you learn not to be looking directly at the bulb while inserting and having something between your fingers and the bulb.

Bob

sun of sand · Sep 6, 2008

I don't trust larger bulbs
5's and 25's have always been good
larger bulbs I've had -within reason- have almost always put out less light than the 5's ..more on the level of M2's.

I think M3's are the best buy. carry more and put out almost as much light
But with larger format another story, I assume.

Moopheus · Sep 6, 2008

Hey, it worked, more or less. Got the synch cord, fresh batteries, and a GE #5 for the first try. Exploded rather spectacularly, necessitating a little hoovering. The plastic safety coating blew right off. Then another try with some P25's, one dud (apparently), but a couple worked fine. They are bright! I used a couple of sheets of instant prints for the tests, and I could probably have stopped down even more. It seems like some sort of shield might not be a totally bad idea.

nickandre · Sep 6, 2008

They shouldn't decay with age. Many have a little dot indicator if they've leaked and exposed to air. I believe those will explode.

amuderick · Sep 6, 2008

M3 and M3B's carry the biggest bang for their size, and it seems, price on the used market.

Flash Bulbs?????

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