Fixing two different film brands together and different result

marciofs · Aug 23, 2016

I developed together in the same tank a roll of HP5 and Fomapan 400. When all the process was done, Fomapan 400 roll had no dye at all while HP5 was still a bit pink.

Does it means Fomapan is easier to wash than Ilford films?
Or does it means that Fomapan is easier to fix?

I use the same fixer I have being using for the past 2 months and with Fomapan it comes clear bit Ilford films it is harder to wash the pink colour away.

BMbikerider · Aug 23, 2016

I am a bit confused here! You developed 2 different manufacturers films in the same tank - at the same time? Were the processing times the same with the developer you were using? However HP5 is a 'modern' emilsion and will take a little longer to fix properly whilst Formo films are the more traditional which will fix in about 2-3 minutes. Try fixing the HP5 again and see what happens.

Out of curiosity, how long did you fix the films for?

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 23, 2016

There are several threads in this forum describing the fact that Ilford HP5 stays a little pink after fixing. This seems to affect some people only (including me), while others are unaffected, although the process and fixing times are the same. Both rotary development or hand agitation seem affected. So it might have to do something with the brand of fixer (adofix seems to leave a little stain, but others have been reported to do so, too) used, or simply bad luck.

If you fixed the HP5 sufficiently (in accordance with rtfm) and some pinkish kind of stain remains, the summary of all these threads is:

1.) Live with the stain, it does no harm
2.) Try a different fixer, like the one recommended by Ilford
3.) You can leave the pinkish negatives exposed to sunlight / UV light, this seems to remove the pink.
4.) if you wash your film for long time (like 30+ min) after fixing, the pinkish seems to go away. This might cause damage to the film or the emulsion, though, and is explicitly not recommended by senior members of this forum.

AgX · Aug 23, 2016

RauschenOderKorn said:
In general, it is not recommended to mix different types of film from different manufacturers for development and fix. The different dyes/sensitizers used in the film might interact or cause staining, ...

Did not hear this before.

Ricardo Miranda · Aug 23, 2016

BMbikerider said:
However HP5 is a 'modern' emilsion and will take a little longer to fix properly whilst Formo films are the more traditional which will fix in about 2-3 minutes.

That's not right.
HP5+ is a traditional cubic grain film just as Fomapan 400 is.
You are thinking of the Delta films that have CCG grain and require longer fixing and washing times.

My last HP5+ negatives from a bulk roll bought this year and dated to Nov 2019 don't have any pink stain.
I use Fomafix. It is about the same as the Ilford Rapid Fixer, Tetenal Superfix Plus or Adofix.
They all do the same job.

Ricardo Miranda · Aug 23, 2016

AgX said:
Did not hear this before.

Nor did I.
I do stand development as normal and at times mix different films even C41 with B&W films in the same tank.

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 23, 2016

Ricardo Miranda said:
Nor did I.
I do stand development as normal and at times mix different films even C41 with B&W films in the same tank.

Post edited to remove the quoted passage.

C41 & B&W in the same tank? How does that work?

Ricardo Miranda · Aug 23, 2016

I said C41, but it was Agfacolor over 35 years old I developed another day.
It probably could do with a pass on bleach or so I read somewhere!
The B&W was Ilford PanF that was 30+ years. It came up very well.

LAG · Aug 23, 2016

Excuse me

marciofs said:
I developed together in the same tank a roll of HP5 and Fomapan 400. When all the process was done, Fomapan 400 roll had no dye at all while HP5 was still a bit pink.

Does it means Fomapan is easier to wash than Ilford films?
Or does it means that Fomapan is easier to fix?

Prewash the films (even although not recommended). Wash and fixing times are "more or less" equivalent (with "rapid" ones) for both films in question. The good news is that you can repeat both steps. Mixing different films & Developer times (that's another story)

Ricardo Miranda said:
Nor did I.
I do stand development as normal and at times mix different films even C41 with B&W films in the same tank.

With Chromogenic B&W or skiping the Bleach

pdeeh · Aug 23, 2016

RauschenOderKorn said:
In general, it is not recommended to mix different types of film from different manufacturers for development and fix. The different dyes/sensitizers used in the film might interact or cause staining ...

If you are going to make rather categorical technical statements like this, you do need to provide some evidence to support it.

Who, for instance, does not recommend it?

Supportive answers would be, say, a citation to a document published by Ilford or Kodak, or a post by PE, or perhaps a reference to a statement in one of Mason's or Haist's books, or a comprehensive technical explanation as to how it might happen

If the answer is "I think it happened to me once" or "because I think it might" wouldn't be supportive, and "I think I read it on the internet somewhere" is no evidence at all.

pdeeh · Aug 23, 2016

marciofs said:
I developed together in the same tank a roll of HP5 and Fomapan 400. When all the process was done, Fomapan 400 roll had no dye at all while HP5 was still a bit pink.

Does it means Fomapan is easier to wash than Ilford films?
Or does it means that Fomapan is easier to fix?

I use the same fixer I have being using for the past 2 months and with Fomapan it comes clear bit Ilford films it is harder to wash the pink colour away.

There's a comprehensive discussion of pink stain here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 23, 2016

pdeeh said:
If you are going to make rather categorical technical statements like this, you do need to provide some evidence to support it.

Point taken - post edited.

My Bads.

pdeeh · Aug 23, 2016

Wallendo · Aug 23, 2016

I assume you are talking about 35mm. Fomapan films in 35mm do not have an antihalation dye (their non-35mm films do).

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/foma_tech/Fomapan_400.pdf
look at the bottom of page two of the PDF. There is no color in Foma 35mm films to wash out.

railwayman3 · Aug 23, 2016

In the 1980's I used to send my colour neg films to a "Professional" lab (can't recall the name, and I don't think they're in business now) who would only accept Kodak film, on the basis that other makes could upset the balance of their chemicals and therefore the consistency of the results.
To be fair, they were an excellent lab., but I always wondered if this was altogether true, or just a selling point.

M Carter · Aug 23, 2016

I've gotten the pink stain. UV takes it out. But an hour or so, not a week. Try for indirect daylight. It will come out even in a negative sleeve. I do worry that it could be enough to affect contrast on MG paper...

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2016

You can mix films of different types provided the development conditions are compatible.

The Ilford probably uses a higher level of sensitizing dye, or an acutance dye and that may be the cause of the pink stain.

It can be removed. It is designed to be removed.

PE

trythis · Aug 24, 2016

If you develop in Diafine, it hardly makes any difference in which film is in the tank. There are a few that vary in recommended developing times, but mostly just that they need at least 5 minutes instead of 3.5 and the ones that say 3.5 can go longer with no significant changes. I use diafine with unmarked bulk rolled and no name films I find from time to time.

Eric Rose · Aug 24, 2016

I develop/fix HP5 and Delta 400 together all the time in Pyrocat-HD. Absolutely no issues what so ever.

marciofs · Aug 24, 2016

BMbikerider said:
I am a bit confused here! You developed 2 different manufacturers films in the same tank - at the same time? Were the processing times the same with the developer you were using? However HP5 is a 'modern' emilsion and will take a little longer to fix properly whilst Formo films are the more traditional which will fix in about 2-3 minutes. Try fixing the HP5 again and see what happens.

Out of curiosity, how long did you fix the films for?

yes, they where all the same time correctly.

Looks like HP5 demand a bit more washing.

marciofs · Aug 24, 2016

Eric Rose said:
I develop/fix HP5 and Delta 400 together all the time in Pyrocat-HD. Absolutely no issues what so ever.

But HP5 and Delta are both Ilford.

In my case it was two different brands.

marciofs · Aug 24, 2016

trythis said:
If you develop in Diafine, it hardly makes any difference in which film is in the tank. There are a few that vary in recommended developing times, but mostly just that they need at least 5 minutes instead of 3.5 and the ones that say 3.5 can go longer with no significant changes. I use diafine with unmarked bulk rolled and no name films I find from time to time.

It was Rodinal.

marciofs · Aug 24, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
You can mix films of different types provided the development conditions are compatible.

The Ilford probably uses a higher level of sensitizing dye, or an acutance dye and that may be the cause of the pink stain.

It can be removed. It is designed to be removed.

PE

Thanks...

I just was unsure if it was about more washing time or more fixing time.

marciofs · Aug 24, 2016

Wallendo said:
I assume you are talking about 35mm. Fomapan films in 35mm do not have an antihalation dye (their non-35mm films do).

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/foma_tech/Fomapan_400.pdf
look at the bottom of page two of the PDF. There is no color in Foma 35mm films to wash out.

It was 120 film rolls actually.

Agulliver · Nov 7, 2016

I've never been advised against mixing two films from different manufacturers in the same developing tank. As long as the process times are similar for whatever chemicals and method you use, it ought not to be a problem. I have certainly been known to process rolls of Foma along with Kodak or Ilford.

I just had my first pink/meganta HP5+ yesterday. It's from the middle of a bulk roll, fresh and in date. The only thing I have done differently to my usual procedure is that I used Tetenal Superfix rather than my more usual Ilford Rapid Fix (I've also had good results with Adofix). The pink hue disappeared almost completely in the final wash, with the wash water being visibly light pink.

Fixing two different film brands together and different result

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