Fixer turning white

[chandrastudios]

My fixer turned into a white milky state, which has never happened before....has it happened to anyone and knows why ?

 

[MattKing]

Welcome to Photrio.
That happens with most fixers, if they are old enough, or are subjected to temperature swings.
The fixer is actually sulfuring out.
In some cases you can extend the life a bit by filtering, but I wouldn't use filtered fixer on film.

 

[chandrastudios]

Welcome to Photrio.
That happens with most fixers, if they are old enough, or are subjected to temperature swings.
The fixer is actually sulfuring out.
In some cases you can extend the life a bit by filtering, but I wouldn't use filtered fixer on film.

is it good for printing on paper ?

 

[MattKing]

It will work usually, but I wouldn't use it for prints you wanted to last for a long time.

 

[chandrastudios]

hmm, then i have a shit load of fixing chemistry to dump! thanks matt! appreciate it!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to Photrio!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

My fixer turned into a white milky state, which has never happened before....has it happened to anyone and knows why ?

It probably is old and smells like sulfur because it has sulfured out, as was said. You can run it through a coffee filter and still use it in the two-bath fixing method.

 

[guangong]

Dump it. I process film in spurts and often find my fixer has gone bad. Considering the time and effort spent in taking pictures, attempting to use bad fixer is simply a bad choice.

 

[MattKing]

Dump it. I process film in spurts and often find my fixer has gone bad. Considering the time and effort spent in taking pictures, attempting to use bad fixer is simply a bad choice.

That would make sense to me.
But I'm not sure whether availability concerns in KATHMANDU might not add some complexity to the issue.
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall seeing anyone else from Nepal posting here before. So I will say "Welcome" to @chandrastudios again.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Welcome. Chandra.

I would advise against using it. My fixer just got bad and film looks "clumpy" for a lack of better word. Also, I expect image to deteriorate. Fortunatly it was a test roll for a fogged lens so no real Lost.

 

[guangong]

That would make sense to me.
But I'm not sure whether availability concerns in KATHMANDU might not add some complexity to the issue.
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall seeing anyone else from Nepal posting here before. So I will say "Welcome" to @chandrastudios again.

If photo supplies are difficult to obtain, that only emphasizes the need to be frugal but sensible, and not process film with expired chemicals. Better to wait until all ducks are in a row before processing. I learned this long ago from experience. Experience is a ruthless and expensive teacher.

 

[chandrastudios]

It probably is old and smells like sulfur because it has sulfured out, as was said. You can run it through a coffee filter and still use it in the two-bath fixing method.

whats a two bath fixing method ?

 

[chandrastudios]

That would make sense to me.
But I'm not sure whether availability concerns in KATHMANDU might not add some complexity to the issue.
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall seeing anyone else from Nepal posting here before. So I will say "Welcome" to @chandrastudios again.

fixer is not as issue here because I source it from the medical supplies store...I get the ones that they use it to fix x-ray sheets in the hospital. I'm just glad to know this because i've never experienced fixer going bad.

 

[chandrastudios]

If photo supplies are difficult to obtain, that only emphasizes the need to be frugal but sensible, and not process film with expired chemicals. Better to wait until all ducks are in a row before processing. I learned this long ago from experience. Experience is a ruthless and expensive teacher.

i agree...my first few years was strictly working with everything expired. I'm glad I stayed put.

 

[chandrastudios]

Welcome. Chandra.

I would advise against using it. My fixer just got bad and film looks "clumpy" for a lack of better word. Also, I expect image to deteriorate. Fortunatly it was a test roll for a fogged lens so no real Lost.

I will take your advise...thanks

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

fixer is not as issue here because I source it from the medical supplies store...I get the ones that they use it to fix x-ray sheets in the hospital. I'm just glad to know this because i've never experienced fixer going bad.

Ohhh the Xray fixer tip is a good one. My local photography store stock of b/w chemistry is getting lower every time I visit and last time they didnt had fixer. I will pay a visit to a medical supply store I know and see if they have fixer.

Best regards

Marcelo

 

[Laurent]

Welcome to Photrio.
That happens with most fixers, if they are old enough, or are subjected to temperature swings.
The fixer is actually sulfuring out.
In some cases you can extend the life a bit by filtering, but I wouldn't use filtered fixer on film.

this thread was a bit late for me, I had fixer with a strange smell and looking cloudy... I filtered and used it on film (unfortunately can't identify which films had this fixer)...

I guess refixing is the recommended cure?

 

[MattKing]

this thread was a bit late for me, I had fixer with a strange smell and looking cloudy... I filtered and used it on film (unfortunately can't identify which films had this fixer)...

I guess refixing is the recommended cure?

The problem with filtered fixer, if there is one, isn't in respect to the fixing effectiveness.
It is in respect to whether any of that sulfuring has made its way into the emulsion and remained there after washing.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

whats a two bath fixing method ?

Two-bath fixing is generally recommended for fiber-base prints. It is not necessary for film and RC papers.

The idea is to extend fixer life by dividing it into two baths. The first bath does most of the fixing and ends up with most of the fixer by-products. The second bath finishes up the fixing and stays relatively pure, thus ensuring adequate fixing without having to change fixer so often.

The technique is: Make two fixing baths. Fix fiber-base prints in the first fix for half the total fixing time, drain and then fix in the second bath for the second half of fixing time. When throughput capacity for the volume of the first fixing bath has been reached (usually 30-40 8x10-inch prints per liter), discard the first bath, move the second bath into first-bath position and mix a new second bath. You can continue this cycle through five changes before needing to mix both baths new.

Hope this helps.

Doremus

 

[Laurent]

The problem with filtered fixer, if there is one, isn't in respect to the fixing effectiveness.
It is in respect to whether any of that sulfuring has made its way into the emulsion and remained there after washing.

Thanks Matt. I'll try to learn the lesson and be more cautious then...

 

[Kilgallb]

I bought a container of Kodafix and it stood unused for 3 months. When I went to use it last weekend there was a 5mm layer of greenish white sludge on the bottom of the container. I tried shaking to mix but just got a cloudy mixture. A few days later the same sludge layer on the bottom. I think this was Kodafix made by Sino promise before they went under. I usually can store Kodafix for a long time, even a year, with no problem.

Off to the camera store to get the Ilford equivalent.

 

[mshchem]

I bought a container of Kodafix and it stood unused for 3 months. When I went to use it last weekend there was a 5mm layer of greenish white sludge on the bottom of the container. I tried shaking to mix but just got a cloudy mixture. A few days later the same sludge layer on the bottom. I think this was Kodafix made by Sino promise before they went under. I usually can store Kodafix for a long time, even a year, with no problem.

Off to the camera store to get the Ilford equivalent.

Ilford rapid fixer will do the same. I've had pretty good luck storing in smaller full bottles, even that's not 100% effective.

 

[john_s]

Acid fixers are unstable. Neutral ones are not.

Nobody has offered a good reason for modern fixer to be acidic. Maybe it's just tradition.

Does anyone know why many fixers contain boric acid/borax? I know it can be useful in some buffering situations, but the fixing action can take place over a wide pH range so buffering doesn't seem to be vital. If they want it to be acidic, aren't there cheaper acids, like acetic?

 

[koraks]

Does anyone know why many fixers contain boric acid/borax?

Boric acid apparently helps to prevent sulfuring out at low pH. It may also be useful as a component in a hardening fixer that also contains alum, where carryover of developer can cause the alum to form a sludge and boric acid prevents this.

If they want it to be acidic, aren't there cheaper acids, like acetic?

You'll generally see acetic acid (more rarely citric) used for pH. I don't think boric acid is used as the primary buffering agent, so I'd expect any acidic buffer that contains boric acid to also contain acetic or citric acid. Borate buffers are effective in the 8-10pH range.

 

[john_s]

Thanks @koraks. That makes some sense (though not as much as neutral fixer). I was aware that borate buffer was at a pH not very useful for acid fixer.

I now use Ilford Hypam, and when i bring it home, add a little concentrated ammonia solution (sometimes known as ammonium hydroxide) to bring pH up around 6 or a bit more. Smells less, and if longer term storage is needed, stability is better.