fixer test

anon s · Oct 12, 2018

Hello,

I am using 'Adox Adofix Plus' to develop Ilford films.
I made 1+5 500ml fixer and used for 4 films so far.
I did fixer test using a piece of undeveloped 120 films for 4 mins and 8 mins.
Both time I got almost the same result. (2). But it was not totally clear.. I don't think the fixer got uneffective already...but...

(1) undeveloped film
(2) fixer tested film
(3) film which I have developed with whole process one day before the film testing.

result (2) is ok to keep using this fixer??

thanks in advance,

drpsilver · Oct 12, 2018

12 Oct 2018

Anon S:

If exposed film is placed in the fixer directly (without development) it should be "film base clear", like (3). Was film-strip (2) developed then fixed, or just fixed? What fixer are you using? Normally most fixers have a capacity of approximately 20 rolls/L. If you are using 500ml the fixer should be able to handle at least 10 rolls. All bets are off if you are using "plain hypo" (just sodium thiosulfate and water, no added acid) because without acid the thiosulfate degrades quickly.

Regards,
Darwin

anon s · Oct 12, 2018

Hi Darwin,
thanks for your answering.

(2) is non-exposed and non-developed. I used one old film which I never used... just for fixer test.
I use Adox Adofix Plus fixer.

At this moment I don't have any more pure fixer.. all I made it 1+5 (fixer +water) for film developing.
(3) looks very transparent in the image I attached... but a bit grey and I normally have after my developing films.

for 3 years I have not developed films... but I bought all chemics recently.
When I see some videos "how to test fixer", people said the film should turn like (3).. But I wonder after 4 films... I also think the fixer is still very fine...

thanks!

removed account4 · Oct 12, 2018

hello anon s.
it looks like your 1:5 dilution is too dilute ( should be 1:4 or 1:9 according the adox site )

i would recommend you do this test they have on their site to determine your current total fix time
http://www.adox.de/Photo/support/film-fixing-time/
adox also suggests total fresh fixer fixing time for film to be 4 mins
http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-chemistry/stopbath-and-fixer/adofix/

if you use that as your baseline it would mean it takes 2 mins to clear fresh fix ( 1:4 )
did it take 3 minutes to clear to #3 ? sorry for all the questions.

im sure you don't need to mix new fixer ... but it being more dilute it will take longer to begin with
so maybe the 4 mins will be 5? so when it takes 10 mins to clear to filmbase it is done?
i have never used adofix plus ... sorry i am not much help with exact information ..

john

Huub · Oct 13, 2018

When both 1+4 and 1+9 work, 1+5 should also work. Capacity of 1 L stock solution of the fixer you used is 100 films according to the manual, so 0.5 L of 1+5 diluted fix should have a capacity of 8 films. I presume the maximum capacity is based on classic films and as a guideline modern films like the tmax films and the delta films reduce the maximum capacity to about 60%. So with 4 films you are still on the safe site even for these films.

Leaves the issue of the orange film strip you used for testing. Which film have you used to test the fix? Could it have been a C-41 film?

RalphLambrecht · Oct 13, 2018

anon s said:
Hello,

I am using 'Adox Adofix Plus' to develop Ilford films.
I made 1+5 500ml fixer and used for 4 films so far.
I did fixer test using a piece of undeveloped 120 films for 4 mins and 8 mins.
Both time I got almost the same result. (2). But it was not totally clear.. I don't think the fixer got uneffective already...but...

View attachment 209284
(1) undeveloped film
(2) fixer tested film
(3) film which I have developed with whole process one day before the film testing.

result (2) is ok to keep using this fixer??

thanks in advance,

under fixing is one of the most common processing errors. by far the best fixing method is 2-bath fixing where you fix twice:
1. with the fixing bath from the last processing session and
2. with fresh fixer
in other words: always use fresh fixer for the second fix but keep it and use it for the first fix next time. This method makes sure the film is completely fixed without left-over silver and the highest image stability. If you save on fixer, you risk losing images.reusing fixer too often is false economy.

anon s · Oct 13, 2018

hi John,
yes, 1+4 fixer is enough for 3 mins. I did just for make it very sure. Thank you for the links and answering!

hi Huub,
now I am not 100% sure if my testing film is c-41...... It might be positive film... that make sense... thank you!

Hi RalphLambrecht,
humm I never thought about 2 bath fixing.... Next time I do developing, I will buy enough fixer to do it... good safe tip, thank you!

Finally I did the rest of 4 films. It turned like it should be,,, except one. But it is maybe not because of the fixer.... but the way I did...

It stays orange color in the middle of the film... Does anyone know why I got this? Is there anyway to get rid of it?? or can I just keep as it is?

Huub · Oct 14, 2018

The milky stain is clearly underfixing. You either have fixed too short a time or the fixer is exhausted or both. Refix the complete batch as soon as possible with fresh fix and next time follow Ralphs excelent advise.
My guess is that the fix was almost exhausted after the first round already and all the 4 films of this second round are incompletely fixed, the last one showing it most clearly. And be aware that it can take years before signs of underfixing show, but when it shows, your are often too late.

anon s · Oct 14, 2018

thank you Huub, I will refix it !

Arklatexian · Oct 14, 2018

drpsilver said:
12 Oct 2018

Anon S:

If exposed film is placed in the fixer directly (without development) it should be "film base clear", like (3). Was film-strip (2) developed then fixed, or just fixed? What fixer are you using? Normally most fixers have a capacity of approximately 20 rolls/L. If you are using 500ml the fixer should be able to handle at least 10 rolls. All bets are off if you are using "plain hypo" (just sodium thiosulfate and water, no added acid) because without acid the thiosulfate degrades quickly.

Regards,
Darwin

From what I have read, acid in fixer is there because there is hardener in the fixer to harden the film emulsion, not because the fixer needs it to fix, if you don't use hardener you don't need acid. However you do need an acid bath to stop development and to not carryover developer into the fixer which will "kill" it. There is no hardener in "plain hypo", therefore no acid is needed. Now who or what is correct? I, and others need to know from someone who KNOWS what they are talking about. What about it Ron?...............Regards!

MattKing · Oct 14, 2018

Arklatexian said:
From what I have read, acid in fixer is there because there is hardener in the fixer to harden the film emulsion, not because the fixer needs it to fix, if you don't use hardener you don't need acid. However you do need an acid bath to stop development and to not carryover developer into the fixer which will "kill" it. There is no hardener in "plain hypo", therefore no acid is needed. Now who or what is correct? I, and others need to know from someone who KNOWS what they are talking about. What about it Ron?...............Regards!

I'm afraid you have this the wrong way around.
Various fixers have different levels of acidity. It is the nature of the fixer that determines its acidity. If you need to add hardener to your procedure, they tend to require (or possibly all require) an acidic environment to work, so if they are going to be added to fixer, it is only practical to add it to acidic fixer.
I use Kodak Rapid Fixer, I intentionally don't add the gardener. The resulting fixer works great, and is moderately acidic.
The little bottles of gardener don't go to waste - they do a great job adding the necessary hardening to prints after toning in sulfide based toners.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 14, 2018

Huub said:
The milky stain is clearly underfixing. You either have fixed too short a time or the fixer is exhausted or both. Refix the complete batch as soon as possible with fresh fix and next time follow Ralphs excelent advise.
My guess is that the fix was almost exhausted after the first round already and all the 4 films of this second round are incompletely fixed, the last one showing it most clearly. And be aware that it can take years before signs of underfixing show, but when it shows, your are often too late.

+1

RalphLambrecht · Oct 14, 2018

Arklatexian said:
From what I have read, acid in fixer is there because there is hardener in the fixer to harden the film emulsion, not because the fixer needs it to fix, if you don't use hardener you don't need acid. However you do need an acid bath to stop development and to not carryover developer into the fixer which will "kill" it. There is no hardener in "plain hypo", therefore no acid is needed. Now who or what is correct? I, and others need to know from someone who KNOWS what they are talking about. What about it Ron?...............Regards!

+1

Arklatexian · Oct 16, 2018

RalphLambrecht said:
+1

If you agree that what I wrote is correct. that is good enough for me. Danke......Regards!

Rudeofus · Oct 16, 2018

MattKing said:
Various fixers have different levels of acidity. It is the nature of the fixer that determines its acidity.

Hardener and fixer are two completely separate things which were just added to the same soup in order to speed up the overall process. If hardener was added to the soup, then the fixer had to be acidic, but that's about all. Most photographic materials are prehardened today, so adding hardener is mostly pointless.

Acidic fixers are more difficult to wash out, they smell, they bleach image silver and have rather short shelf lives. It is hard to understand why people would still use them today.

@anon s : if you leave unfixed film exposed to room light for some time, some of its silver will print out. There's a good chance that this is the source of this light brown hue in one of your pictures. That deep orange strip in your first post is most likely C-41 or ECN-2 film. Refixing will not have much of an effect on printout silver or C-41/ECN-2 orange mask. I recommend you use fresh, unexposed test clips of known to be B&W film to test your fixer. A roll of cheap new B&W film provides you with over 100 test clips and costs less than one liter of fixer concentrate you are likely going to throw out in vain, just because your fixer test was done with some bogus test clip.

anon s · Oct 16, 2018

thanks all of you guys comments.
I am now thinking to try Maco ecofix which says:
"MACO ecofix is a rapid fixer for black and white films and papers. This high-performance fixer bath contains non-hardening ammonium thiosulfate. Ecofix is suitable for machine development (dilution 1 + 4) and can be replenished."

and yes Rudeofus, I got one black and white film for the next tests..

I assume I can use any developer combinated to fixer... right?

thank you

Rudeofus · Oct 16, 2018

anon s said:
I assume I can use any developer combinated to fixer... right?

Yes, fixer choice is independent of choice of developer as long as you use a stop bath and/or a brief wash between development and fixing.

anon s · Oct 17, 2018

hi Rudeofus, thanks for your answering!

fixer test

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