Fixer for Van Dyke Brown?

Adam W · Mar 12, 2017

Hi folks,

I'm interested in trying Van Dyke Brown printing, but I'd like to use less water. Instructions I see online say to fix the print with sodium thiosulfate. Can I use another fixer, like the Ilford Rapidfix I already have? If so, would I be able to do a shorter final wash? Also, is there an alternative to a final wash in running water, something like the Alford 3-part method for washing film?

Thanks!

Adam

TheToadMen · Mar 12, 2017

I don't know myself, but on http://www.alternativephotography.com/beyond-the-blues-vandyke-brown-printing/ it says:

"... Wash the exposed print in tap water for several minutes, then fix in a very thin solution (10:1) of photographic fixer or a solution of 4 heaping teaspoons of sodium thiosulfate dissolved in 1000 ml water. The image will turn from reddish brown to dark brown and the highlights will clear. The image will turn lighter overall. "

Jim Noel · Mar 12, 2017

Use the sodium thiosulphate if you want the true VDB color. Rinse in 5-8 changes of water until it the water remains clear. Fix in the above for two minutes, then a final wash in 5 one minute changes of water.
This will cut your water consumption considerably,

Adam W · Mar 12, 2017

Jim Noel said:
Use the sodium thiosulphate if you want the true VDB color. Rinse in 5-8 changes of water until it the water remains clear. Fix in the above for two minutes, then a final wash in 5 one minute changes of water.
This will cut your water consumption considerably,

Thanks!

nmp · Mar 12, 2017

Adam W said:
Hi folks,

I'm interested in trying Van Dyke Brown printing, but I'd like to use less water. Instructions I see online say to fix the print with sodium thiosulfate. Can I use another fixer, like the Ilford Rapidfix I already have? If so, would I be able to do a shorter final wash? Also, is there an alternative to a final wash in running water, something like the Alford 3-part method for washing film?

Thanks!

Adam

Follow fixer with hypo-clearing agent (~1-2% Sodium Sulfite) for a few mins with agitation. It will allow you to shorten your wash time significantly.

Ricardo Freitas · Jun 24, 2019

Greetings all.

Sorry to dig up a 2017 post, but although I have read the thread I am still in doubt.

I am really inclined to try the Ilford Rapid Fixer, as it is what can get my hands to faster and cheaper. I know I should get the sodium thiosulfate if I want to be true to the VDB colors and process, but what are the consequences of going for the Ilford fixer? wrong hue?

I am just geting my toes wet with alt processes, so I am just starting with cyano and VDB so I can use the sun as light source. This to say that I will not have the sensitivity and experience for nuances.

All help is apreciated

koraks · Jun 24, 2019

I always fix alt process silver prints such as VdB and salted paper in dilute (1+20) C41 fixer, which is near neutral pH. The results are indistinguishable from sodium thiosulfate fixed prints, but fixing is evidently faster / more effective. A thorough wash is still required though, there's no way around that.
You could try adjusting the pH of any regular acid rapid fix to near neutral by adding eg ammonia. A pH meter would be useful for this purpose.

revdoc · Jun 25, 2019

I've read that rapid fixer will bleach the image, and I've also read that it's okay if it's diluted by about 1:20. I'd try it, and see how it goes.

If that fails, sodium thiosulfate is used to remove chlorine in swimming pools, so you might be able to buy some at a pool shop.

Ricardo Freitas · Jun 26, 2019

I guess I will go down the ebay route. Seems like no pool shops (or quarium) in my area have heard about Sodium Thiossulfate. (North of Portugal)

Thanks for the replies

koraks · Jun 26, 2019

I'm not sure about the local market in Northern Portugal, but I'd be surprised if there is no business at all that can sell you either sodium or ammonium thiosulfate. Ammonium thiosulfate is used as fertilizer in certain situations; perhaps this helps.

richyd · Jun 26, 2019

This Is from - http://www.alternativephotography.c...er-halide-process-of-bw-silver-gelatin-v-1-5/

A hugely informative document of tested, practical experiences. Basically they are saying you can use a neutral fixer diluted about 1:15. Tetenal rapid odourless and Fotospeed odourless FX30 are both neutral, ammonium thiosulphate based. I have used both, they are my normal fixers.

"
A fixing bath is required as this is an iron/silver process where the silver needs to be fixed to assure image permanence. A rapid fixer can be used.

We use eco•pro Neutral Fixer in a 15ml / 1L solution (1:4 for a standard working solution, diluted again 1:10 to 1:15 for VDB* and Argyrotype).

Once fixed, the absorbed fixer must be throughly removed from the paper in an optional short hypo clearing bath (or extended final wash) then a final wash to assure archivability, and is now ready for drip drying. The Vandyke process has a significant dry down where image density takes upwards of 12 hours to come into its deep sepia brown tonality.

*Jill Enfield and others indicate use of a rapid fix working solution diluted to 1:10 – 1:15"

revdoc · Jun 27, 2019

FWIW, I processed some VDB prints last night, fixing with rapid fixer diluted 1:15. Plain fixer bleached the print very quickly, so I added a pinch of sodium bicarb to raise the pH. The result didn't bleach the print until the 2-minute mark, which is probably long enough to fix the image.

Maybe this is something the OP can try.

Dusty Negative · Feb 19, 2020

Just tried this myself — Ilford Rapid Fix at a 1:9 solution. Bleached out the highlight details in seconds. I would think 1:18, at a minimum. Will eventually try this, as it’s easier to get the Ilford fixer than the hypo.

koraks · Feb 19, 2020

Try adjusting the pH of the fixer to neutral. Acid fixer will indeed degrade the print. Use it one shot as neutralized fixer doesn't keep well and has limited capacity.

Dusty Negative · Feb 19, 2020

koraks said:
Try adjusting the pH of the fixer to neutral. Acid fixer will indeed degrade the print. Use it one shot as neutralized fixer doesn't keep well and has limited capacity.

I knew one day I'd regret not paying attention in chemistry class. But, you see, there was a stunning young lady who sat in front of me, and I worked ever so hard to keep her attention on me and not on pH levels. As it happens, I didn't succeed with her, or chemistry class. Now I don't know how to do what you have amicably suggested. Thank Goodness for Google.

koraks · Feb 20, 2020

The lady was undoubtedly much more relevant to pursue
I'd add some household ammonia - it won't take all that much. Use litmus paper to verify pH (or red cabbage juice).

awty · Feb 20, 2020

revdoc said:
I've read that rapid fixer will bleach the image, and I've also read that it's okay if it's diluted by about 1:20. I'd try it, and see how it goes.

If that fails, sodium thiosulfate is used to remove chlorine in swimming pools, so you might be able to buy some at a pool shop.

I bought mine from the pool shop, they didnt know the chemical name, just ask for Pool Chlorine Remover.
Other than that Ilford HYPAM is ok at half strength.

FotoD · Nov 9, 2022

Don't bleach your image with ammonium thiosulfate. Just get some Fomafix P where you buy your photo chemicals, or straight from Foma for €6.

The large bag contains ca 900g sodium thiosulfate (hypo). The small bag contains ca 75g sodium pyrosulfite (sodium metabisulfite). Keep it for mixing developers, HCA etc.

Adam W · Nov 9, 2022

Thanks the replies. I've done dozens of prints so far with great results. I use sodium thiosulfate, rinse with a few changes of water, some hypo clear, and a few more water changes. It seems to work fine.

Adam

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