Fixer cyrstals on film

[AndreasT]

Hi all, has anyone any idea how I can remove fixer cyrstal from film. Yesterday I developed some sheet film and today upon taking them from the line I see that they have white spots on them. I have read someplace else that you can handle the film in a weak sodium hydroxide solution to dissolve the salts. At the moment a film of mine is lying in the solution but nothing is happening.
I could live with the spots since I can retouch the prints, but I am worried that the cyrstals will destroy my negatives.
Would be grateful for any ideas, thanks.
Andreas

 

[nickandre]

You washed them? Are you sure these are fixer crystals? I would HIGHLY doubt that these are fixer crystals if the film was washed correctly, more likely drying marks.

 

[AndreasT]

I checked my fixer afterwards and there is a cyrstalin deposite. I have discarded the fixer.

 

[archphoto]

It is posible that your fix was not diluted enough.... you could have kept the fixer and warmed it up a bit on a radiator or so.

I would rewash your negatives !!!! Gründlich ! (sorry I can't remember the proper word for it now)

Petr

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sodium Hydroxide is not the proper treatment for removing crystals of fixer from film (If that is what it is). It could be a calcium salt deposit or something like that due to hard water.

In any event, whatever type of crystal it is, it can become embedded in an emulsion and leave marks or defects which may remain behind even if you can remove it.

It is best to re-fix, then wash, then soak in a neutral Disodium EDTA solution or a neutral solution of Hexametaphosphate. Then rewash and treat with Photo Flo in water.

PE

 

[AndreasT]

Thanks for the help I will try that. After I translated that in German.
Thanks.
Andreas

 

[archphoto]

Brauchst Hilfe damit ?

One thing you could check is how hard the water is in Berlin and if you need a filter for it.

 

[AndreasT]

Ja, was ist das auf Deutsch ?

 

[Ian Grant]

It won't be fixer crystals but it may well be from your water. Get a water filter - the type used for drinking water that should be sufficient to remove enough of the calcium. The jug type are quite cheap, about 15-20 euros, sometimes less. Just use filter water for a final couple of rinses.

Ian

 

[tac]

If you're fixing normally, and washing normally, it's probably water marks; Water marks on film backing=OK, can rewash off- Water marks on emulsion = screwed.

Give your future films a final brief rinse in distilled H2O with a couple drops foto-flo- just one or two drops F-F, hang up dust-free draft-free space, e.g., a closet.

 

[AndreasT]

Thanks all again, but the spots are not water marks. These white spots are in the fixer. I also use Sistan and distilled water as my final rinse. I have never had this problem with my water before. However the fixer wasn`t used in a while. So I suppose that some salts were not kept soluable.

 

[Photo Engineer]

As fixers spoil, they form particles of sulfur. This sulfur will not dissolve in water upon soaking. They are embedded in the emulsion and will not come out!

PE

 

[AndreasT]

Will this destroy the negativ ?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Only to the extent of leaving white specks permanently in the film, or if you do manage to remove them, it will leave voids where the specks were removed. They are solid particles after all, and the effect is like pushing a hard rock into a bowl of jello. You remove the rock and a depression is left.

PE

 

[Martin Aislabie]

As fixers spoil, they form particles of sulfur. This sulfur will not dissolve in water upon soaking. They are embedded in the emulsion and will not come out!

PE

Would filtering the fix as it was decanted catch the particles, or do they form later when diluted and brought into the presence of oxygen as the chemistry is agitated?

Martin

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Thanks all again, but the spots are not water marks. These white spots are in the fixer. I also use Sistan and distilled water as my final rinse. I have never had this problem with my water before. However the fixer wasn`t used in a while. So I suppose that some salts were not kept soluable.

Andreas,

As you are using SISTAN as a final bath, then it is a real chance it might bee the Sitan crystallising on the film when drying.
See the Sistan instructions in the attachment, somewhere in it, there is written about that, but my German is not good enough to point out where and I cannot find the English version anymore.

Good luck,

Philippe

For the English speakers, I attached the more general 'AGFA chemicals for B&W film' brochure and you can find the comments about Sistan on page 14.