First Tmax Negs in Pyrocat OMG!

bmac · May 20, 2004

I processed 6 TMAX 400 negatives in Pyrocat HD last night. I am totally blown away. I wll be printing them on Friday evening, but by just looking at them onthe light table, they are easily the best negatives I have ever processed / made.

They were part of a film speed test that I will be completing tonight, but out of the 6 negatives, it looks like I could make a decent print out of any of them.

Heck, I might just frame the negatives

Tom Duffy · May 20, 2004

Brian,
I'd be very interested in how they actually print. I've wanted to try tmax 400 for contact printing on AZO, but I'm happy enough with tri-x so as not to buy a 50 sheet box.

I've just bought a roll of tmax 400 to try with Pyrocat, as a cheaper alternative.

Take care,
Tom

bmac · May 20, 2004

I'll post results once I print them. I tried Tmax 400 (TMY) on Clay's suggestion. Went for a box of 4x5 prior to shelling out the big bucks for a box of 8x10

sanking · May 20, 2004

Tom Duffy said:
Brian,
I've wanted to try tmax 400 for contact printing on AZO, but I'm happy enough with tri-x so as not to buy a 50 sheet box.
I've just bought a roll of tmax 400 to try with Pyrocat, as a cheaper alternative.

Tom

If your interest is in printing AZO (or any of the alternative processes for that matter), TMAX 400 is much superior to TRI-X for both expansion and contraction development when developed in Pyrocat-HD. I would not think of Tmax 400 a as a cheaper alternative to TRI-X, just a much better one.

Sandy King

Francesco · May 20, 2004

For a true cheaper alternative to TMAX 400, I highly recommend Fortepan/Classic 400. I have been using it exclusively the last 6 weeks (while awaiting my supply of Efke PL100 to be replinished) and it works extremely well with AZO.

Tom Duffy · May 20, 2004

Hi Sandy,
No, I meant that I bought a single roll of tmax as a cheaper alternative to buying 50 sheets of 8x10.

My two concerns about tmax are:
1. It reputation as requiring precise development, tri-x is more forgiving if I don't get exposure/development quite right.
2. tonal range - a subjective thing, will I like the tonal range of tmax in a finished print as much as I like tri-x?

I'm going to start slowly with contacts of roll film, rather than buy a $150 dollar box of 8x10, only to find that I don't like it.
take care,
Tom

Jorge · May 20, 2004

Tom, buy the 8x10, if you find you did not like it, I will take it off your hands for whatever sheets you have left. It is all I use and if you really want to appreciate what it can do with pyrocat there is no better way than a contact.

sanking · May 20, 2004

Francesco said:
For a true cheaper alternative to TMAX 400, I highly recommend Fortepan/Classic 400. I have been using it exclusively the last 6 weeks (while awaiting my supply of Efke PL100 to be replinished) and it works extremely well with AZO.

The Fortepan 400/JandC Classic film is a very good film for scenes of normal contrast but it has much less expansion potential with AZO than Tmax 400, at least in all of the developers I have tried (Pyrocat-HD, ABC Pyro, and one of Gainer's ascorbic acid/phenidone brews). However, it works pretty good for alternative printing with Pyrocat-HD as the stain allows you to build up a lot more contrast.

Great budget film for either AZO and alternative processes for expansion and contraction is Efke PL 200, and available in ULF sizes as well.

Sandy King

Francesco · May 20, 2004

I have to agree with Sandy as regards Classic 400/Fortepan 400 and expansion capabilities. I too will not use the film for SBRs less than 7. It being an inherently low contrast film I have found it to be extremely useful in dealing with scenes of SBRs 7 to 10. Still, Efke PL100 is superior in all respects.

skahde · May 21, 2004

Trying to push the thread back on topic I'd like to add that TMY in Pyrocat is my favorite for situations where light is limited. For what it is worth I agree the negatives look simply gorgeous on the light table and are easy to print. It certainly has very good midtone-separation even if the light is rather dull, the low reciprocity fauilure can be a *big* advantage under such conditions.

I haven't done much testing under bright light untill lately and haven't printed these negs yet. If TMY does nice under such conditons too it will become my standard in 120 as grain and sharpness are excellent at the enlargement factors I use (x6.5 beeing the max).

Stefan

roy · May 21, 2004

sanking said:
The Fortepan 400/JandC Classic film is a very good film for scenes of normal contrast but it has much less expansion potential with AZO than Tmax 400
Sandy King

Sandy, would you say that Tmax 400 (120 roll film) works well with Pyrocat generally? I photograph indoors using natural light a lot and the reciprocity characteristics appeal to me.

c6h6o3 · May 21, 2004

I was enthralled with Efke PL100 until I tried 400TMax. I burned through my first 50 sheet box of 4x5 in a week. (And I have a regular 9-5 job.) I sold the unopened box of Efke PL100 8 X 10 that I had to George Provost and gave away the rest. Now I, like Jorge, use nothing else. (Jorge, where do you get 12 x 20 TMY?) How sad that they don't make this film in larger sizes.

I know it's expensive. With film, just like with everything else, you get what you pay for.

Jorge · May 21, 2004

Jim, unfortunatelly there is no 12x20 TMY, I use the photowarehouse film. If I could get TMY in 12x20 I certainly would. For the 8x10 I have found TMY to be the only film I need.

sanking · May 21, 2004

roy said:
Sandy, would you say that Tmax 400 (120 roll film) works well with Pyrocat generally? I photograph indoors using natural light a lot and the reciprocity characteristics appeal to me.

In my opinion Tmax 400 120 roll film works very well with Pyrocat-HD. If you were to comare the results to Xtol I think you would find Xtol gives slightly finer grain but Pyrocat-HD is slightly sharper with EFS about the same. However, I think you would have to enlarge beyond 16X20 from 6X6, 6X7 or 6X9 negatives to see any obvious difference in results.

Sandy King

Francesco · May 22, 2004

How does TMY perform for scenes with SBRs 9 or greater (N-2, N-3)? With Pyrocat HD?

Johnny V · May 22, 2004

Hi Sandy,

Read your most recent post on the AZO list. Awesome info. I noticed you left out Tmax 100. Any reason not to included it?

Thanks,

John V.

Johnny V · May 22, 2004

Francesco,

Go to the below url and read the last bottom post. It should answer your quesiton.

Dead Link Removed

Francesco · May 22, 2004

Thanks Johnny V. I have read that last bottom post of Sandy's previously and although it did mention that TMY and Pyrocat HD will work with scenes of SBRs > 8 I was wondering if any of those actual shots people have used TMY on did involve such a contraction and how did those actual prints turn out. In particular with AZO.

sanking · May 22, 2004

Johnny V said:
Hi Sandy,

Read your most recent post on the AZO list. Awesome info. I noticed you left out Tmax 100. Any reason not to included it?

Thanks,

John V.

TMAX 100 is a good film for AZO printing. Unfortunately it has a coating that filters out a great percentage of the UV light, increasing exposures by as much as three stops with UV senstive processes. I don't use the film for this reason and have not tested it as much as other films. Howver, it is a very good film for regular silver and AZO printing and performs very much like Ilford Delta 100.

Sandy

sanking · May 22, 2004

Francesco said:
How does TMY perform for scenes with SBRs 9 or greater (N-2, N-3)? With Pyrocat HD?

Francesco,

TMAX 400 is a very good film for both expansion and contraction. Using the 1:1:100 dilution of Pyrocat-HD, assuming a negative DR 1.55 for AZO, I have been able to get very good contraction development. The following information is based on tube processing with gentle but constant agitation at 72 degrees F.

N-3 7:00 minutes
N-2 8:30 minutes
N-1 11:30 minutes
N 16:30 minutes

For N or N + develoment I would recommend switching to to the 2:2:100 dilution for more reasobable develoment times.

Sandy King

Francesco · May 22, 2004

Many thanks once again Sandy. It looks to me that the times for TMY and Efke PL100 are almost spot on, especially using minimal agitation.

bmac · May 25, 2004

sanking said:
Francesco,

TMAX 400 is a very good film for both expansion and contraction. Using the 1:1:100 dilution of Pyrocat-HD, assuming a negative DR 1.55 for AZO, I have been able to get very good contraction development. The following information is based on tube processing with gentle but constant agitation at 72 degrees F.

N-3 7:00 minutes
N-2 8:30 minutes
N-1 11:30 minutes
N 16:30 minutes

For N or N + develoment I would recommend switching to to the 2:2:100 dilution for more reasobable develoment times.

Sandy King

Sandy, The N time for the 2:2:100 (printing on AZO) is stil 11:30, right?

sanking · May 26, 2004

bmac said:
Sandy, The N time for the 2:2:100 (printing on AZO) is stil 11:30, right?

Yes, for N development of Tmax 400 I recommend about 11:30 minutes with the Pyrocat-HD 2:2:100 dilution, at 72F and with gentle agitation in trays.

Sandy

Tom Duffy · Jun 24, 2004

I just got a chance to contact print my first 8x10 Tmax 400 negs which were developed in Pyrocat at 2:2:100. Shot a high contrast scene (white truck in strong sunshine). Developed one neg at 8:30 and another at 10:00 @ 68F, in a Jobo. As Brian said, the negs looked really great.

Printed on AZO grades 2 and 3 in Smith's Amidol formula and Ilford Warm Tone FB in Zone VI developer. For the AZO, I preferred the thinner negative on grade 3. The big news to me was the Ilford paper. In terms of the differentiation of the whites, it did a better job than the AZO; the blacks were very close, with the AZO being better and the local contrast was better with the Ilford. The AZO print was slightly sharper when viewed with a magnifier. It seems the Ilford paper is a perfect match for Tmax 400 developed in Pyrocat.

In terms of the aesthetics of Tmax vs. Tri-X 320, I'm still not sure. The films produce very different prints. The Tmax seems to have a longer scale, but it seems more "clinical" less "romantic". I think I'll stick with Tri-x for medium format and 4x5.

I think, though, that I have to try this Tmax negative on platinum. Having seen one of Jorge's prints from the travelling portfolio and his recent scans, I think the bug has bitten. I imagine Bostick and Sullivan sell a platinum starter kit for idiots...
Take care,
Tom

Jorge · Jun 24, 2004

Tom, before you buy the chemistry I would greatly recommend you buy at least the Sullivan/Weese or Arentz's book. As far as complexity there is nothing to it, but I can safely say your first few prints will not be what you expect.

As to 400 TMX, if you want the same tonality as tri X, use a green of light blue filter, depending on how much sky you have, of course with skies showing use the green filter, with no skies, use the blue. I like Tmx so much because of its versatility and reciprocity, but like you, I like the tonality of Tri X a lot more, this is why I try to use the filters I mention, to bring back a little of that Tri X feeling.

First Tmax Negs in Pyrocat OMG!

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