First tlr caméra advice

Melvin J Bramley · Mar 2, 2024

Autocord is my choice.
I was just gifted a Rolleiflex with the 3.5 Tessar.
Took them both out today to compare them; negatives are drying as I type!
The Autocords viewscreen is noticeably better .
That said , I hear the yashica mat 124 has an even better screen.
The first thing, for me, to impress is the Autocords lever focus, way better than the Rolleiflex.
I look forward to the results of my comparison , though I have to say neither camera has been CLA'd.

koraks · Mar 3, 2024

Gianluca said:
I do not report the link here to avoid cross-posting,

Providing a source for something you wrote is not cross-posting and entirely permissible (and often even desirable). So please feel free to link to the Italian forum.

Cholentpot · Mar 3, 2024

I have a few TLRs, I've found that across the board there is one feature that pops up and it varies from every single camera. Some TLRs need a lens hood. Doesn't matter how expensive or cheap, they just need a hood.

The best TLRs I own are the Mamiya C line. But they're massive and heavy. They do have the best handling and viewfinders. And their image quality can't be beat. You just have to put up with a camera that's twice the size and weight as a different TLR.

Silver-iodine · Mar 3, 2024

Okay so a Minolta autocord is not really eye pleasing for me, but thanks anyway for the suggestion and i wanted a tlr because its really pretty, the yashica models are the most beautiful for me, so i want will look up your suggestions, the mat124 seems more modern in design, than the D or 24, but im leaning towards yashicas i think, dont know which one yet, optically speaking, im buying a tlr for fun, it just needs to be good, not the best lens, of course if one model is really better than another im taking it in account, but based on the comments, it seems that any known brand will do.
The crank is really the most important for me, and using 120 film easily also, dosent matter if it takes 2minutes to load, i just dont want to have to tinker to do it.
Between Yashica D,12/24, and 124g, would you say one is "better" quality wise ? Is there a model with a reputation of solid block that will last me if i take good care and cla it?

Dan Daniel · Mar 3, 2024

The Yashica-D is a knob wind. You say a lever wind is critical?

Among the long line of Yashica-Mats, condition is what matters. The only significant difference over the years is meter or no meter. If you want a meter, your choices are pretty limited. I personally prefer the 124 plain, not the 124-G on looks. But that's your call. Other than that, yes, the 124-G has more plastic parts both internally and externally. I wouldn't concern yourself with this.

Look at the paint around the wind lever disk area. Check focus hood for dents and bends. Check the back for clean tight joint with the body all around. Check focus movement in and out, and if the lens shrouds meets the body evenly. Clean lens!

Condition! Find one in good condition. And use it for six months before you even think about another medium format camera. Learn to meter and expose, to use the reversed viewfinder and the square. And to be slow with 12 frames on a roll. As an entry to medium format photography and to TLRs, you'd join maybe a million people or more over the years if the Yashica-Mat is the camera you use. Enjoy!

retina_restoration · Mar 3, 2024

Silver-iodine said:
Okay so a Minolta autocord is not really eye pleasing for me, but thanks anyway for the suggestion and i wanted a tlr because its really pretty, the yashica models are the most beautiful for me,

It seems to me that you had already made your choice before you asked for suggestions, so I don't know why you sought advice. I mean, if all you want is a "pretty" camera.....

campy51 · Mar 3, 2024

Check the Yashica Mat 124. It's nice looking and has the features of the 124G except the meter.

Dan Daniel · Mar 3, 2024

campy51 said:
Check the Yashica Mat 124. It's nice looking and has the features of the 124G except the meter.

Actually the 124 does have a battery-powered meter like the 124-G. The 124-G has some gold plating in the circuitry, hence the 'G.' And the 124-G is almost all black while the 124 is the older aluminum with black skin style.

Melvin J Bramley · Mar 3, 2024

This could be a forgotten gem!

Kalloflex - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia

camera-wiki.org

Advertised as having a lens that can produce 125 lpm.

Cholentpot · Mar 3, 2024

Dan Daniel said:
The Yashica-D is a knob wind. You say a lever wind is critical?

Among the long line of Yashica-Mats, condition is what matters. The only significant difference over the years is meter or no meter. If you want a meter, your choices are pretty limited. I personally prefer the 124 plain, not the 124-G on looks. But that's your call. Other than that, yes, the 124-G has more plastic parts both internally and externally. I wouldn't concern yourself with this.

Look at the paint around the wind lever disk area. Check focus hood for dents and bends. Check the back for clean tight joint with the body all around. Check focus movement in and out, and if the lens shrouds meets the body evenly. Clean lens!

Condition! Find one in good condition. And use it for six months before you even think about another medium format camera. Learn to meter and expose, to use the reversed viewfinder and the square. And to be slow with 12 frames on a roll. As an entry to medium format photography and to TLRs, you'd join maybe a million people or more over the years if the Yashica-Mat is the camera you use. Enjoy!

I use the orginal Yashica Mat. It looks nice, no meter and has a crank. For bashing around I have a Yashica A, no crank, no meter and less things to go wrong all together.

Paul Howell · Mar 3, 2024

Silver-iodine said:
Okay so a Minolta autocord is not really eye pleasing for me, but thanks anyway for the suggestion and i wanted a tlr because its really pretty, the yashica models are the most beautiful for me, so i want will look up your suggestions, the mat124 seems more modern in design, than the D or 24, but im leaning towards yashicas i think, dont know which one yet, optically speaking, im buying a tlr for fun, it just needs to be good, not the best lens, of course if one model is really better than another im taking it in account, but based on the comments, it seems that any known brand will do.
The crank is really the most important for me, and using 120 film easily also, dosent matter if it takes 2minutes to load, i just dont want to have to tinker to do it.
Between Yashica D,12/24, and 124g, would you say one is "better" quality wise ? Is there a model with a reputation of solid block that will last me if i take good care and cla it?

Yashica D and 12, 124 and matts were all were built on the same frame, the difference in the shutter is that the 12 and the 124 have the crank advance which cocks the shutter. The D you need to cock the shutter by hand, which is good if like doing multi exposures. The late mode Ds have the 4 element 3.5 taking lens with 2.8 viewing lens. The D is a bit lighter. I think the Autocord has and advantage, it is flocked. I bought a flocking kit on line and flocked my 124, it does help when shooting into the sun.

Another TLR that had very good lens was made by Kowa, the Kallowflex,

John Wiegerink · Mar 3, 2024

retina_restoration said:
It seems to me that you had already made your choice before you asked for suggestions, so I don't know why you sought advice. I mean, if all you want is a "pretty" camera.....

I kind of agree with you. I have a few pretty cameras that see very little use since they are mostly shelf queens. I will take optical quality and function over "pretty" every time. My most used camera is pretty beat-up, but oh its results sure do please me.

Gianluca · Mar 3, 2024

koraks said:
Providing a source for something you wrote is not cross-posting and entirely permissible (and often even desirable). So please feel free to link to the Italian forum.

Thanks, Koraks.

Here are a few links to threads on the Analogica.it forum describing differences/preferences for the Autocord, Rolleicord and Yashicamat (these are the oneI was referring to: in particular, I have the greatest opinion on "-Sandro-"):

Consiglio Acquisto fotocamera medio formato - Analogica.it

Una 6x6 biottica "sicura" e "sensata" da acquistare - Analogica.it

Consiglio Yashica mat 124 G - Analogica.it

I close my reasoning adding that I took occasion to search for other reports, and in facts I found many referring to the Rokkor being better than the Tessar (in particular, the Rokkor is often reported as sharper than the Tessar).

I was thinking that maybe comparisons were brought on a Autocords with Rokkor VS a Rollecord with a Triotar (and not a Xenar/tessar)

BUT if many users report such a thing, I must admit that they are on the right side: after all I use Rolleis just since a pair of years.
Allow me just to say that differences should be not all that large as sometimes it happens to be reported: I am in difficulties in accepting this because Tessar is a well known design, with few freedom degrees to work around. But maybe I am missing something...

Surely, if differences are evident at larger and full apertures, the best lens should be preferred.

Suffice to say that NOW I AM CONSIDERING buying an Autocord by myself !

Naturally I also was thinking about other TLRs, but I think that suggestions should sstick to most diffuse and known ones (price wise, for ease of finding, as diffuse cameras are better known and some spares can be found a bit more easily...).

Concerning the film advancing mechanism, choosing a camera over others just because it has a crank over a knob is not a smart move. Similarly can be told concernng the focusing mechanism: some could prefer the lever, others the knob, and that's OK. I feel like the knob offer better focus picking; other say that the lever does not require a hand swap. But consider that if you choose the lever because you need a fast shooting procedure... in my opinion you are looking at the wrong camera type.

Buona Luce.

Gianluca

Silver-iodine · Mar 3, 2024

Just to clarify, i dont want just a pretty camera, its just important to me to have something that i find pretty, as i have more pleasure shooting with it if it is.
But a Yashica 24 being what i find most beautiful seems to have dropped in my list since the 124, 124g seem more what i need, if its the same base/ quality more or less, and apparently a very bright VF, but im going to read everything and choose based on the lens and shutter, its obviously better to have something that has all the functions you use when shooting, especially since all crank yashicas are pretty enough.
Anyway thanks for all the read, i think im going to find the best option for me, i just dont have caméra shops near me so im using either ebay or a website if you have recommendations on someone selling yashicas that is trustable, im in Switzerland so anything in europe is fine.

Mark Crabtree · Mar 3, 2024

Rolleiflex Automat. I still run into them for reasonable prices (under $350) and have sold two for less than that in the past couple years. The lenses are all fine Zeiss and Schneider lenses, though most tessar type will have some haze to clean out between the front two elements. I do that myself and have never had to send one of these for service. The professional workhorse for decades.

One major feature of all Rolleiflexes (not 'cords) that is so invisibly integrated that it gets overlooked is the automatic parallax correction.

Mamiya C220, especially the F model, are also nice cameras for different needs. The late Yashicas seem like the worst value in today's market.

albireo · Mar 3, 2024

Silver-iodine said:
Just to clarify, i dont want just a pretty camera, its just important to me to have something that i find pretty, as i have more pleasure shooting with it if it is.
But a Yashica 24 being what i find most beautiful seems to have dropped in my list since the 124, 124g seem more what i need, if its the same base/ quality more or less, and apparently a very bright VF, but im going to read everything and choose based on the lens and shutter, its obviously better to have something that has all the functions you use when shooting, especially since all crank yashicas are pretty enough.
Anyway thanks for all the read, i think im going to find the best option for me, i just dont have caméra shops near me so im using either ebay or a website if you have recommendations on someone selling yashicas that is trustable, im in Switzerland so anything in europe is fine.

Silver,

TLRs are my favourite cameras, and I happen to have most of the cameras mentioned in this thread: amongst others, the Yashicamat 124G, Minolta Autocord, Rolleicord Va, Rolleicord Vb, Rolleiflex 3.5F, etc.

My advice is - read carefully what @Dan Daniel has to say about TLRs, both on here and in other threads, as he's a very wise man and he's.. Right. One key point he makes that I MUST reiterate: condition, condition, condition. DM if interested and we can discuss the differences between these cameras in all the detail you need.

Mark Crabtree · Mar 3, 2024

albireo, I'd love to hear your opinion also. Why not just post it here.

BTW, my favorite Rollei of all is the T, but they are hard to find at decent prices. A great lens on those, even with the almost inevitable separation. Light, great interchangeable screens, cheap prism finders (again with separation that doesn't make much difference).

albireo · Mar 3, 2024

Mark Crabtree said:
albireo, I'd love to hear your opinion also. Why not just post it here.

Mark, I've just settled into my favourite chair with a wee dram of a nice single malt and a copy of "A1 - The Great North Road" by Paul Graham after a most intense day at the playground with my hyper-energetic toddler. I will try to contribute more to the thread tomorrow.

Someone mentioned a Sandro Presta somewhere above. Didn't know he was so highly regarded, and I've had a really disappointing experience with him, wouldn't recommend his services.

Whether OP goes for a Rolleiflex an Autocord etc, we have much better repair technicians in the EU or Switzerland (OP, you most definitely will need a CLA, whatever you end up buying).

blee1996 · Mar 3, 2024

If the OP is in Switzerland, he might try Alex Varas who is based on Spain. He does good work on CLA of TLRs and sometimes sell in the classified.

Gianluca · Mar 3, 2024

albireo said:
Mark, I've just settled into my favourite chair with a wee dram of a nice single malt and a copy of "A1 - The Great North Road" by Paul Graham after a most intense day at the playground with my hyper-energetic toddler. I will try to contribute more to the thread tomorrow.

Someone mentioned a Sandro Presta somewhere above. Didn't know he was so highly regarded, and I've had a really disappointing experience with him, wouldn't recommend his services.

Whether OP goes for a Rolleiflex an Autocord etc, we have much better repair technicians in Europe or Switzerland (OP, you most definitely will need a CLA, whatever you end up buying).

Albireo: that someone was me !

I am very sorry for your bad experience with Sandro: in facts I am quite surprised as any comment that I heard about his work is top rated... until today.

Surely there are alternatives in Italy: many are competent, man not so much: I also had a bad experience with a known repairman from whom I barely was able to recover my shutter (still in defective conditions) after several months.
Not to speak about another optician from whom I asked for a custom made optical element (a lens included in his catalog: not an easy task as it needed a partial hand tuning, but fully into his capabilities) that I had to wait for 2 (two) years. I repeat: two years ! I had problems also with foreign vendors: all this just sporadically (I have been a professional in optics for over 20 years, so shipping and getting parts have been on daily base); it is important that problems happens only sporadically !

But for Hasselblad and Rolleis I have no doubts and my choise is Sandro: again, I am sorry for your experience. Obviously I do not know details and I cannot explain to myself. In any case, above all, I hope that you have been able to recover the problems you had with him.

Sorry also for this off-topic but, having been called in, I felt like I had to send this short reply to say about my personal experience.

Gianluca

kl122002 · Mar 5, 2024

Silver-iodine said:
Hi, i want to get into medium format for the large negatives and also a lot because of the different cameras, but im looking for something that will be usable in everyday life so the relatively compact size of tlrs seems great.
A frame counter would be really nice,
I really want one with a crank, its really a requirement because its beautiful, and i found that yashica tlrs were not so pricey, like the 124g or the Yashica 24.
Would you say the yashica 24 is a good camera compared to 124g?
I really dont mind if theres a better one without a meter like maybe Yashica D, or even something like a Kiev88.
Changing lenses is a plus but really not something im looking for, the c330 is really cool with all its weirdness but a bit higher in Price.
All in all im asking if you know of tlrs or just regular MF with waist level finder that have a crank and are fun to shoot, and overall good quality.
Budget would be 200-300€ range, but extensible if theres the best option for me at 350.
If you could tell me your ideas about fun to shoot tlrs/ wlf it would help, thanks.

I have all these you mentioned,

-Yashica 124 g, a plastic feeling camera that can do pretty image. The bonus is the CdS meter. If the meters works correctly it is definitely a good camera.

- Yashica 24 is most like a 220 camera. Takes 220 film but also. Works fine with 120 film. Just remember after 12 frames it is the end of the roll.

Yashica has a long running TLR production history. So you don't have to worry too much .

- Mamiya c330 original/F/S are professional grade TLR that won't disappoint. I have a set of S with handles and metered prism and metered View finder. It is not light. Just watch out the settings and not to force anything when something seems locked . **Read the manual first**

All TLRs are similar IMO. The only difference is the knob vs lever wind. For knob models would need an additional step to tension the shutter.

Cholentpot · Mar 5, 2024

kl122002 said:
I have all these you mentioned,

-Yashica 124 g, a plastic feeling camera that can do pretty image. The bonus is the CdS meter. If the meters works correctly it is definitely a good camera.

- Yashica 24 is most like a 220 camera. Takes 220 film but also. Works fine with 120 film. Just remember after 12 frames it is the end of the roll.

Yashica has a long running TLR production history. So you don't have to worry too much .

- Mamiya c330 original/F/S are professional grade TLR that won't disappoint. I have a set of S with handles and metered prism and metered View finder. It is not light. Just watch out the settings and not to force anything when something seems locked . **Read the manual first**

All TLRs are similar IMO. The only difference is the knob vs lever wind. For knob models would need an additional step to tension the shutter.

Mamiya C series has bellows and interchangeable lenses. Makes it unique in the TLR world.

frost242 · Mar 5, 2024

Knowing a guy in my town who repairs cameras, he also show me poor condition Yashicas and have many times told me to avoid those cameras and prefer a Rolleiflex - materials used to build the Yashica TLR are weak. Btw, he made me my best TLR so far: a 1938 Rolleiflex Automat, everything is smooth on it, lens is sharp.. I also have a Minolta Autocord, a great camera too.

lecarp · Mar 5, 2024

Just remember whatever you decide you must buy two because of the twin thing!

OAPOli · Mar 5, 2024

I've used a Rolleicord V, Rolleiflex 3.5 and Autocord. The Rolleiflex has the best haptics by a good margin. In my area a Tessar/Xenar Rolleiflex is similarly priced to a Yashica-Mat so I would recommend the Rollei.

First tlr caméra advice

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