First tlr caméra advice

Silver-iodine · Mar 2, 2024

Hi, i want to get into medium format for the large negatives and also a lot because of the different cameras, but im looking for something that will be usable in everyday life so the relatively compact size of tlrs seems great.
A frame counter would be really nice,
I really want one with a crank, its really a requirement because its beautiful, and i found that yashica tlrs were not so pricey, like the 124g or the Yashica 24.
Would you say the yashica 24 is a good camera compared to 124g?
I really dont mind if theres a better one without a meter like maybe Yashica D, or even something like a Kiev88.
Changing lenses is a plus but really not something im looking for, the c330 is really cool with all its weirdness but a bit higher in Price.
All in all im asking if you know of tlrs or just regular MF with waist level finder that have a crank and are fun to shoot, and overall good quality.
Budget would be 200-300€ range, but extensible if theres the best option for me at 350.
If you could tell me your ideas about fun to shoot tlrs/ wlf it would help, thanks.

campy51 · Mar 2, 2024

Minolta Autocord would be a fine choice. Better than Yashica and as good as Rolleiflex for picture quality.

Silver-iodine · Mar 2, 2024

I saw the autocord but i wondered what the 1-9 settings on the taking lens were in place of speed and aperture settings, what makes it better than a Yashica 24 in your opinion ?

Don_ih · Mar 2, 2024

The best camera for the money would probably be a Rolleicord (but the failing can be the mirror, which can be very dim). The older Mamiya tlrs, far as I can tell, offer the same quality as the more expensive C330 - and can be much cheaper. (I don't like using the C330, for some reason.) A Yashica with a Yashinon lens, in my opinion, is much better than one with a Yashikor lens. In your hand, there's very little difference between a Rolleiflex, Rolleicord, and a Yashica.

JPD · Mar 2, 2024

Be prepared for many different suggestions...

Yashica 24 is meant to use 220-film, but with some "tricks" it can use 120-film. A Yashica Mat with Yashinon lens would be fine, if it works. "Condition is everything", as they say.

An early 1950s Rolleiflex with Tessar or Xenar would be a good choice, if you need the crank. A Rolleicord with Xenar is another good choice, but it would have a winding knob and the shutter has to be cocked manually. The Rolleicord VB has a bright screen.

JPD · Mar 2, 2024

Don_ih said:
The best camera for the money would probably be a Rolleicord (but the failing can be the mirror, which can be very dim).

The later Rolleicords have better mirrors. The earlier models had some kind of lacquer to protect the silver.

guangong · Mar 2, 2024

I owned and used a Minoltacord sround 1962. Lens quality is probably equal to Rollei, but the focusing mechanism is quite fragile. Rolle cameras are robust machines.

Dan Daniel · Mar 2, 2024

Silver-iodine said:
I saw the autocord but i wondered what the 1-9 settings on the taking lens were in place of speed and aperture settings, what makes it better than a Yashica 24 in your opinion ?

On an Autocord, the shutter speed and aperture are visible at the top of the viewing lens when looking down. This is like the Rolleiflex and the YashicaMat. Typical numbers are used.

The numbers you see on the front around the taking lens are part of Minolta's metering system. If there is a meter on the camera and it reads '13,' you set the shutter and aperture to any combination that adds up to 13. I have never checked if the Minolta system uses standard 'EV' light level values as the basis. Recommendation- ignore this.

Condition is the important issue. Any of the cameras mentioned are capable of giving very good results... IF in good working order.

There are some issues commonly seen on TLRs that are not hard to correct. Mirror and focus screen. for example.

More than anything, don't try to overthink the decision. Narrow your list and requirements, find a camera in good working order, and get shooting. Medium format is a universe of its own and the chance of buying the 'best' camera for yourself on the first go is small. Accept this, get shooting, and expect to end up with a few or none down the road.

Paul Howell · Mar 2, 2024

Late model Yashica D with 4 elments taking lens, Mamiya 220, a striped down 330, takes the sames lens, a bit lighter.

loccdor · Mar 2, 2024

Autocord is the best value for TLRs in my opinion. I sold mine and miss it. Razor sharp lens.

The Yashicas have a decent image quality too, more than enough, just not bleeding-edge like the Autocord. Either is a fine choice.

Kiev-88s are not cheap or very available anymore and the many parts can lead to issues. They are less reliable than TLRs.

If you're open to 6x45 format, Mamiya 645 is a decent budget option and can take the excellent Pentacon Six lenses.

pbromaghin · Mar 2, 2024

Dan Daniel said:
More than anything, don't try to overthink the decision. Narrow your list and requirements, find a camera in good working order, and get shooting. Medium format is a universe of its own and the chance of buying the 'best' camera for yourself on the first go is small. Accept this, get shooting, and expect to end up with a few or none down the road.

+++++++. While I love my mamiya TLRs, this is the right answer. Which brand is nothing compared to the individual camera.

baachitraka · Mar 2, 2024

Rolleicord

xya · Mar 2, 2024

Rolleicord is a good choice, Rolleiflex is better but more expensive and Mamiya C 330 is the most versatile. Having interchangeable lenses is GREAT...

GRHazelton · Mar 2, 2024

I own both a Minolta Autocord and a YashicaMat with the Yashinon lens. Of the two I prefer the Autocord; its handling is, to me, the better. The Rokkor lens is superb. As noted above the focus lever is somewhat fragile. It should operate smoothly. Don't even think of forcing it, but get the camera serviced.

Maris · Mar 2, 2024

My last TLR which in retrospect should have been my first is:
Mamiya C220 with a 55mmf4.5 wide angle lens set. The features I like are lighter weight, simple and robust mechanicals, 220 and 120 format capabilities, interchangeable professional quality lenses, massive close-up capability, and a price point easier to bear than the luxury level Rollei equipment.

Gianluca · Mar 2, 2024

Helloes.

I am back at film photography literally after decades - during which I shot very sporadically with entry level digital cameras just during family reunions-, and apart from that I used/I use specialized digital cameras for astro-photography.

Since a youngster (starting with a simple Ricoh 500 RF rangefinder and later stepping to Canon SLRs) I have always hated TLRs, and I have never been able to understand why and how photographers were "still" using those silly old boxes.

Being back at film shooting, I have put togeher a small canera assortment and a pair of years ago I took occasion to buy a Rolleicord Va.
And I have been biten !

Referring to TLRs, I have also a Rolleiflex 3.5 F and a Mamiya 330 Professional S: the first one get very little use, and the latter is a joy to use... but EXCLUSIVELY on a tripod.
I got occasion to buy also a Rolleicord Vb, and the love for the Rolleicord series doubled !

Today, if I had to choose a single camera with three lenses, I would surely grab the Hasselblad 500 CM with the 50, 150 and 250mm. triptic.
BUT if I had to choose a single camera with a single lens, I would opt for the... Rolleicord Va !

No doubts: a basic, reliable lightweight, elegant camera with a good lens, great ergonomy, flawless mechanics, excellent form factor.

I would prefer the Rolleicord Va over all the others, bypassing minor differences with the Vb version and renouncing to the better (?) lens installed on the Rolleiflex (magnificent, but I still prefer the 'Cord, the 'Flex being heavier and a bit... too much perfect for me ,expecially as a "bring me everywhere camera").

I prefer the Rolleicord Va also over the Minolta and Yashica (but consider that I had no occasion to use nor to see them in the details): impression is that they add nothing to the 'Cord (forget about those lightmeters...), and that -together with other TLRs- mechanics and optics are no more reliable/in any way better.

With a little of patience a Rolleicord Va can be bought for a very reasonable amount, and at that point I would have no doubts to search this camera instead of any other TLR...

Gianluca

250swb · Mar 2, 2024

A Minolta Autocord for the best lens and general build by a long way from the older Rolleiflex's or Rolleicords. The Minolta is a solid camera and the only thing to be aware of is an excessively still focusing lever and not just a firm focusing lever.

dxqcanada · Mar 2, 2024

Hmm, I had mentioned this in another TLR discussion ... also look at the Ricoh's. The Rikenon lens is really good.

retina_restoration · Mar 2, 2024

Autocord: superb lens, excellent viewing/focusing experience, but you have to make sure you buy one in very good condition. Make sure the focus lever is intact! (they are a soft metal that is prone to breaking if hit hard enough) I have other TLRs (including the Rolleiflex Automat) but the Autocord has the better lens and an excellent overall user experience.

blee1996 · Mar 2, 2024

I think there are already enough good suggestions in terms of which make and model. The key is really to get one that is working properly, either by photographers here or trusted online sellers.

Since you mentioned crank, I think the Yashicamats (124, 124G, Mat, 12) will be good choices. Although I do like Rolleicord, I would recommend you look into earlier Rolleiflex Automats with Tessar or Xenar lenses. The early Rolleiflex might be within your budget. The Rolleiflex and Yashicamats have crank for both film advance and shutter cocking, and are faster in action. The rolleicords are lighter though.

Dustin McAmera · Mar 2, 2024

I see the OP left the door just a crack open that it doesn't have to be a TLR, so I'll suggest a Mamiya 645 1000s (or even a Pro). You can have the camera with a WLF or a prism, or have both in your bag. The original M645 also has a crank, but as a little folding one set in a winding knob; the crank on the Pro is a bit small and plastic, too. To look and feel properly cranky you need the 1000s.

Gianluca · Mar 2, 2024

250swb said:
A Minolta Autocord for the best lens and general build by a long way from the older Rolleiflex's or Rolleicords. The Minolta is a solid camera and the only thing to be aware of is an excessively still focusing lever and not just a firm focusing lever.

> (...) best lens and general build by a long way from the older Rolleiflex's or Rolleicords (...)

??? I do not agree at all.

(1) The Rokkor 75mm f/3.5 hosted on the Autocord follows the Tessar optical design: sorry, but I do not believe that anyone could point significant differences, the most if such differences should be at a clear dvantage of the Rokkor over the Tessar. At most the Rokkor could provide a more recent coating type (it is declared as color corrected and fully coated; but please note that fully-coated is not the same as multi-coated).

(2) mechanically I surely prefer the Rolleicord: I have already admitted that I have no direct experiences with the Autocord, but I allowed myself to suggest the Rolleicord having been clearly instructed by a VERY competent (not to say obsessive...) italian camera repairman that explained me about.

These contents have been published on an italian forum: I do not report the link here to avoid cross-posting, but If anyone is interested I gladly will provide a link by private message.

Apart from these picky precisations (that I want in any case to provide to the OP), let's say that also in this case there is not the "best camera" and by no means I want to make my suggestions the only reasonable one.

On the contrary:: if anyone prefer the Autocord (or even a seagull) over the Rolleiflex I fully respect his choise: who am I to discuss personal preferences ?

I close by remembering that, obviously, overall conditions and functioning status (plus mainteinance simplicity) are a pivot point when buying such a camera.

Buona luce.

Gianluca

retina_restoration · Mar 2, 2024

Gianluca said:
(1) The Rokkor 75mm f/3.5 hosted on the Autocord follows the Tessar optical design: sorry, but I do not believe that anyone could point significant differences, the most if such differences should be at a clear dvantage of the Rokkor over the Tessar.

Not all Tessars are made with the same. I have an Autocord (Rokkor) and a Rolleiflex (Tessar) and the Rokkor/Tessar is sharper and has much better contrast than the Tessar in the Rolleiflex.

ant! · Mar 2, 2024

I have an autocord as well and love Minolta, but I found they are easier to find in North America or Japan and more expensive in Europe. In Europe, I'd go with a Rollei, or maybe Zeiss Ikoflex, or maybe a Flexaret... Whatever you find in good condition.

PS: and yes, the autocord uses the standard EV system, with a digital light meter I found this convenient, with an old Gossen SBC not need...

mshchem · Mar 2, 2024

My first 120 was a 1950's era Yashica. We sent it out for shutter CLA, worked great when it came back, wonderful little camera. Of course this was early 1970's.

First tlr caméra advice

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