First steps into C41

Jessestr · Sep 14, 2014

Well I got to admit.. C-41 is little harder than I thought but it's going okay. Never had any issues doing black and white..

So I used a Jobo CPE2 with Digibase kit to develop some rolls. Develops are olay but they have a slightly other kind of tint and when scanned they get a little to green. Feels like there is missing something.
It's not a color shift but more a color cast.

Here's a picture of Portra 400 (both) (bottom one I what I developed myself, top one is what the lab developed, just a clear negative) You can see clearly that it has a different color. On my lab negatives you can see the different color layers very well. Looks like mine don't have. However when I scan them with all the color cast corrections it's okay.. but still not like how it should be.

Any ideas what could be wrong? Need to master this

Photo Engineer · Sep 14, 2014

Your example looks badly underdeveloped or developed with contaminated developer. The base color should be a constant unless you use or do something bad during processing. Check your chemistry and process sequence.

PE

pentaxuser · Sep 14, 2014

As it is the Digibase kit, have a look at the very long thread on it. Yes there will be a lot there that isn't relevant but select the important processing information that contributors have given and it might tell you whether your processing is correct. The Digibase instructions if I recall correctly aren't quite as complete as they should be.

If you cannot find anything wrong with what you did and you can be sure that you had processed at the right temperature then you might want to mix fresh chemicals or even buy a fresh kit. If the chemistry is exhausted or contaminated then it won't matter how careful you are with the process, the negatives will not be correct.

pentaxuser

Athiril · Sep 15, 2014

The base looks constant to me, there's some bleed off the edge of the frame, which I tend to get with my RB67 too. Also, I would be hesitant to compare 35mm and 120 base. You should compare 2 of the same from the same batch for a better comparison.

If it's green it means your colour correction isnt right. Or do you mean selectively green in the shadows or highlights while the rest is good etc?

Photo Engineer · Sep 15, 2014

While the films are different, and this is not good for comparison, there does appear to be some nonuniformity.

PE

Jessestr · Sep 15, 2014

I tried washing every time between the developer, bleacher, fixer & stabilizer. With new chemicals. Seems that the issues are gone. The guide didn't tell me to wash between each process.

pentaxuser · Sep 15, 2014

Jessestr said:
I tried washing every time between the developer, bleacher, fixer & stabilizer. With new chemicals. Seems that the issues are gone. The guide didn't tell me to wash between each process.

Well done. I simply recalled that the Digibase process was less than the full process that was arrived at by the combined efforts of several posters and now you mention it I can now remember that the washing steps were considered to be necessary.

pentaxuser

Photo Engineer · Sep 15, 2014

A stop bath after the developer might have done the same thing. IDK.

FujiLove · Sep 16, 2014

I had a few issues of uneven development and colour problems with my C41 process to begin with (using the Tetenal kit). These extra steps have fixed it:

1. Add a 2% acetic acid stop bath between my colour dev and blix
2. One minute wash after the stop bath with two changes of water
3. Ensure the blix is well aerated before use (shake the bottle vigorously for 30 seconds)
4. Increase the blix time by 50%

...all fixed thanks to the good folks on APUG

I run the process on my Jobo CPA2, except the stabiliser, which I agitate very gently by hand to prevent too much bubbling. I find that if the stabiliser runs on the Jobo I end up with bubbly stains on the film. These are annoying, but don't show up on the scans - so may not be a big issue.

Jessestr · Sep 16, 2014

Thanks. I'm planning to do the C41 again with agitation in stead of rotary development. If I try to be very consistent in agitation.. Would it be just as good?

Thanks

FujiLove · Sep 16, 2014

Jessestr said:
Thanks. I'm planning to do the C41 again with agitation in stead of rotary development. If I try to be very consistent in agitation.. Would it be just as good?

Thanks

I'm sure it would work, but I'm not sure how consistent it would be between batches. Personally, I would stick to the rotary development because it's very consistent, and above all, that seems to be what C41 requires. Consistent temperature, time and a very even chemical distribution.

I'll leave the C41 specialists on here to give you a definitive answer, as I'm certainly no expert.

FujiLove · Sep 16, 2014

Jessestr said:
Well I got to admit.. C-41 is little harder than I thought but it's going okay. Never had any issues doing black and white..

So I used a Jobo CPE2 with Digibase kit to develop some rolls. Develops are olay but they have a slightly other kind of tint and when scanned they get a little to green. Feels like there is missing something.
It's not a color shift but more a color cast.

Here's a picture of Portra 400 (both) (bottom one I what I developed myself, top one is what the lab developed, just a clear negative) You can see clearly that it has a different color. On my lab negatives you can see the different color layers very well. Looks like mine don't have. However when I scan them with all the color cast corrections it's okay.. but still not like how it should be.

Any ideas what could be wrong? Need to master this

Before you ditch the Jobo, I would try using an acetic acid stop bath (+ washes) after the colour development. You need to be spot on with the timings, so I think a stop bath is vital to really nail the C41 development cycle. You could also try going longer with the blix (or bleach + fix). I believe the times quoted by the manufacturers for these steps are minimums, and it's safer to go over. I use an extra 50% for my blix, but I'm not sure if that's the best plan if you are using separate chemicals. I'm sure others on here will advise.

kenj8246 · Sep 16, 2014

I can only speak, more or less intelligently, about the Tetenal C41 kit. Fairly foolproof, assuming fresh-ish chemicals. Small tank development: 1 minute presoak with 102F water, reserve water. Developer for 3.5 minutes, initial 5 second agitation and 5 seconds every 30 seconds thereafter. Reserved presoak water with a few agitations and pour out(this is mostly for prolonging the life of the blix). Blix for 6.5 minutes, same agitation. Wash for 10 minutes in running 102F water or use three clean tanks of 102F water and do the Ilford 5,10,20 agitations. Final step is the fixer or whatever Tetenal calls it. Piece of cake.

Jessestr · Sep 16, 2014

The point is I don't have any Jobo. I used a friend's his Jobo. I can easily make a temperature bath with a PID controller myself (that is accurate enough until 0.06°C) and I can also do the motor part, but if it isn't necessary i won't do the rotating part.

sagai · Feb 13, 2015

kenj8246 said:
I can only speak, more or less intelligently, about the Tetenal C41 kit. Fairly foolproof, assuming fresh-ish chemicals. Small tank development: 1 minute presoak with 102F water, reserve water. Developer for 3.5 minutes, initial 5 second agitation and 5 seconds every 30 seconds thereafter. Reserved presoak water with a few agitations and pour out(this is mostly for prolonging the life of the blix). Blix for 6.5 minutes, same agitation. Wash for 10 minutes in running 102F water or use three clean tanks of 102F water and do the Ilford 5,10,20 agitations. Final step is the fixer or whatever Tetenal calls it. Piece of cake.

Are you washing at the end after stabiliser?
Thanks!

Photo Engineer · Feb 13, 2015

Do not wash after the stabilizer or the final rinse in any color process.

PE

sagai · Feb 13, 2015

Why is that?
I have not noticed any discrepancy to be honest ...

Photo Engineer · Feb 13, 2015

Stabilizer preserves the image over many years. But, it must be there to do its job. If you wash it out, it is gone and the images can fade or be attacked by fungi and bacteria. Good luck.

Oh, and you risk getting spots on the film if you rinse with water after the stabilizer as there is no Photo Flo. Stabilizers contain Photo Flo to prevent spotting.

PE

sagai · Feb 13, 2015

Thanks PE!
I'll change my practise!

mtjade2007 · Feb 15, 2015

Jessestr said:
The point is I don't have any Jobo. I used a friend's his Jobo. I can easily make a temperature bath with a PID controller myself (that is accurate enough until 0.06°C) and I can also do the motor part, but if it isn't necessary i won't do the rotating part.

I used to do home processing of C-41 for years without a Jobo. I had a temperature controlled water bath for heating my chemicals. I was never able to reach (not even close) to any consistency. It was very hard to me. I used a small film tank and processed 135 and 120/220 rolls. If I did not reuse the developer I might have been closer to a consistency but with reuse of the developer everything simply could not be precisely repeated and achieved a consistency.

I eventually realized it was more wasteful in losing exposed images/films so I jumped on a chance of acquiring a Jobo ATL-2300. The machine was auctioned off by a police station somewhere in Idaho. I paid a fortune from the person who got it from the police station. I later discovered a chalk written word of $300 on the back of the machine. So the guy really made a fortune from me I believe. But he delivered it to me in person free of charge. He said he happened to have planned on a trip to California so he would carry it on his truck and deliver it to me. He did. I met him at the hotel he stayed and I was very grateful and happy for what he did.

Since the machine was a police station machine, it came with a manual, quite a few drums, film reels and spare parts. I never regretted a tiny bit ever since. In my opinion, get a Jobo. It makes life a lot easier.

sagai · Feb 18, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
Stabilizer preserves the image over many years. But, it must be there to do its job. If you wash it out, it is gone and the images can fade or be attacked by fungi and bacteria. Good luck.

Oh, and you risk getting spots on the film if you rinse with water after the stabilizer as there is no Photo Flo. Stabilizers contain Photo Flo to prevent spotting.

PE

I have done my last one as you have advised.
Spot on, it really makes a difference.
Thanks, I owe you a beer or two when you are around Hungary.
I would put one plus whiskey if I could get rid of the dust though ...
Regardless any care, it is dare ...

PE .... Is there any suggestion for b&w wetting agent? I am having Foma, however I am not sure if it makes me any happier than living without.

Photo Engineer · Feb 18, 2015

Any wetting agent that works with films is generally good. Non-ionic surfactants (wetting agents) are best.

PE

First steps into C41

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