First salt print, advice needed on improving.

Juergen · Jan 26, 2015

So I finally got started with salt printing over the weekend. My very first print is a small contact print from a 6x6 Tri-X negative. I am pleased that I got anything at all, but I do feel there's a lot to improve. The print was exposed to a UV face tanner lamp for 12 minutes placed 75 cm away from the lamp. The negative I used was 'stand' developed in Rodinal for a full hour.

In order to get better results, I feel I need a much denser negative as a 'normal' density negative, is clearly not enough. If anyone can share some tips on how to achieve this, I'd be grateful. I'm currently using Rodinal and Tri-X as my standard dev/film combo.

p.s. I really enjoyed the process, it's a lot of fun!

cliveh · Jan 26, 2015

I think you need to describe the formulation and process of your salt printing in order that we can help.

MDR · Jan 26, 2015

The results are not bad for a first try.
Try to get a Ralph Gibson neg expose tri-x at E.I. 200 and overdevelop the neg if I remember correctly something along the lines of 11mins in Rodinal 1:25 20°C that is if you want to continue to use Tri-X other films might be better suited to the process though but this should give a very dense neg.. If you want more contrast you should use the sun as a lightsource instead of the face tanner. Stand development is also not the best way to create negs for alt processes as you get very compensated less contrasty negs from that process. If you want to use your negs for printing alt and silver use pyro dev. like pyrocat or Moersch Tanol. Other than that I believe a good gold toning never hurt a salted paper print and the salted paper print is the most beautiful of all alt processes imo.

Good luck

Juergen · Jan 26, 2015

The negative I used was a well exposed 'standard' negative suitable for normal silver gelatin printing which was 'stand' developed in Rodinal for an hour.
The paper I used for printing was first floated on a 2% salt solution for a couple of seconds. After it had fully dried I sensitized the paper with a 12% silver nitrate solution using the rod coating technique (the solution also contained 5% citic acid as preservative). I finally exposed the paper for 12 minutes at a distance of 75cm from the face tanner lamp I used. The paper I used was 100% rag, acid free Fabriano hot pressed water colour paper.

cliveh · Jan 26, 2015

Juergen said:
The negative I used was a well exposed 'standard' negative suitable for normal silver gelatin printing which was 'stand' developed in Rodinal for an hour.
The paper I used for printing was first floated on a 2% salt solution for a couple of seconds. After it had fully dried I sensitized the paper with a 12% silver nitrate solution using the rod coating technique (the solution also contained 5% citic acid as preservative). I finally exposed the paper for 12 minutes at a distance of 75cm from the face tanner lamp I used. The paper I used was 100% rag, acid free Fabriano hot pressed water colour paper.

Try a 25% salt solution at 30 minutes exposure.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 26, 2015

If you really want to print this negative, try intensifying it in selenium. In future, adjust your development time that will give you a negative that will print nicely with a #0 contrast filter. Then, do a min time max black test. The film rebate area should be as dark as the sensitized area outside the negative area. Your prints should look fine then. When they do, then try acidifying your paper. This will intensify the blacks.

smieglitz · Jan 26, 2015

I think you'll get the best results starting out with a contrasty negative that has received a generally normal exposure but some degree of extended development. You want dense highlight areas on the negative, not an overall dense negative. Development in a pyro developer can cause an effective increase in spectral density of the negative due to the greenish-brown staining. Such a negative may remain optically low enough in density for silver-gelatin papers while the spectral density of the stain can make the same negative suitable for salt printing or albumen, etc.

FWIW, you could also selenium tone a negative to gain a better contrast range for salt printing. Something like 1+3 dilution for 5 minutes might be a good starting point.

A few years back Kodak changed the base on TMAX 100 rendering it pretty useless for alternative printing since it blocked UV. They left TMAX 400 alone but also changed other films. IIRC, Plus-X was also changed but perhaps Tri-X also was spared from the change.

gzinsel · Jan 26, 2015

well, I have to say! that the information you gave is NOT the important stuff. The information I need to help you is as follows. what was your salt solution? percentages please. . . . what was your silver nitrite solution? Very important here! what was your paper you printed on? how did you process? what type of toner did you use, if any? what was your C.I. of your neg. I mean it is soooo sooo soooo difficult to advise based on the info and image you gave. Generally speaking, stand dev. is not required for a process that needs a C.I. of 2.0-2.1

garysamson · Jan 26, 2015

If you google this PDF document it will provide you with a great deal of useful information about the salt print process. Let me suggest that you use Iford FP4+ and Pyro PMK developer at double strength you will be able to produce a negative that will allow for a full range of tones.

MECHANISMS OF CONTROLLING COLOUR AND AESTHETIC APPEARANCE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHIC SALT PRINT

Juergen · Jan 27, 2015

Gzinsel, please see my second post in this thread for all details.

Neil Souch · Jan 27, 2015

A good start but from what I can see the image lacks contrast which points to a lack of neg density. However, as discussed and advised above other items can come into the play as well. It took me quite a while to crack salt printing and the main issue I had was getting the neg right. I found the only way to do this was to use a salt printing formula that has been tried and tested, a paper that is known to work and take time to get the negs right. I used Rodinal @ 1+25 with FP4+ rated @ 64 ISO and made test negs in increments of 10% developer time until I started getting what I was looking for - a salt print with good contrast. Expect to get in the 20% to 50% + area of extra development time before they print well. And expect quite long exposure times.

Neil.

Neil.

Simon Howers · Jan 27, 2015

Salt printing is a discipline within itself and there is a lot to learn if you wish to become truly proficient. Quite a lot is published and not all experts agree! I recommend you get a copy of The Salt Print Manual by Ellie Young ISBN 978-1-4452-8328-9. The manual is an extract from her thesis on the subject, so the resulting text is well researched and straightforward.
Good luck
Simon

pdeeh · Jan 27, 2015

It does seem a rather variable process ... and everyone seems to have an opinion or their own special formulas and their own interpretations of what works and why, whether they post at APUG or write books or theses ... my own experience (based on only a very few months trying it out) that even printing from a negative that is good for salt printing, the final colour and contrast can differ significantly from paper to paper, and even on the pH of the water in which the print is first washed ... I've had odd results even when using "known good paper" with which others report great results!

It is one of those things, I think, where in order to get consistent results, one has to invest time, patience and money in methodical testing, changing only one variable at a time until you're getting what you want. You might get lucky, and using someone else's formulae and process, get exactly what you want immediately ... but I think the chances are slim!

good luck.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 27, 2015

the final colour and contrast can differ significantly from paper to paper, and even on the pH of the water in which the print is first washed ... I've had odd results even when using "known good paper" with which others report great results!

Very much the same with Kallitypes.

Neil Souch · Jan 28, 2015

IIRC it took me about 3 months to produce what I would call acceptable salt prints, and that was going at it with plenty of time to spare as I am retired! Papers do play an important role and many of them simply will not work with the ones that are recommended to work often unobtainable here in the UK. The PH of the process water used is also very important. But salt prints have a charm of their own and can be exquisite when toned - keep at it and you will get there. Best of luck.

Neil.

Juergen · Jan 28, 2015

I'd like to thank each and everyone for their thoughtful input. It has certainly helped me gain a better understanding of the process and will hopefully help me improve my salt paper printing skills. Cheers, Jürgen.

First salt print, advice needed on improving.

Juergen

cliveh

MDR

Juergen

cliveh

Andrew O'Neill

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smieglitz

gzinsel

garysamson

Juergen

Neil Souch

Simon Howers

pdeeh

Andrew O'Neill

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Neil Souch

Juergen

First salt print, advice needed on improving.

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