first mistake

mps · Apr 25, 2008

If I had to guess I would say that I have processed around 30 rolls of BW film in my photography lifetime and tonight is my first failure.

Went to process Kodak 400TX in DD-X, which is what I typically use. Both rolls came out blank! #$#%!^#! What did I do?

So not 100% on what camera I took them with but a possibility is an all manual Konica that is new to me. :I didn't have it checked out but shutter speeds seem to be working fine.

My first thought is that the developer was bad but it has a shelf life of 24 months undiluted in full bottle?

Thanks in advance for any advice on the cause of my stupidity.........I guess mistake are bound to happen......but 2 rolls of my favorite film.....me sad

Meghan

Resoman · Apr 25, 2008

Hi, Meghan -

My condolences - your story reminds me of a time I returned from a trip with exposed film I was very excited about. My film was completely blank when processed, and I traced the problem to a "miscommunication" with my darkroom partner about where our developer would be stored. I didn't take it too well...

If the camera's shutter never opened at all, the film would be unexposed and you'd get no images, but the edgeprint and frame numbers should still develop at usual.

If the camera did successfully expose the film, I'd still expect faint images even from exhausted developer, unless you accidentally poured in fixer first, or something like that.

Good luck in tracking down the problem!

Regards,

Gary,

East Snook, TX

mps · Apr 25, 2008

The frame numbers and 400TX are present on the film. And I am positive I put the developer in first. I used the same developer about a month ago with good results.

Bad camera vs. old developer?

pentaxuser · Apr 25, 2008

So no problems with the developer if the edge markings are fine. We are beginning to narrow it down. Looks like the shutter never opened at all or the film never advanced. I presume that the roll is clear as opposed to black which might be the case if the shutter remained open while the film passed through.

Looks like a camera problem rather than a developer problem. These things are of course always unsettling especially if you are convinced that you did nothing wrong.

pentaxuser

mps · Apr 25, 2008

update.....

Checked the shutter with lens off and it seems to be working just fine.

Anyone have any experience with DDX going bad?

mps · Apr 25, 2008

never thought...

pentaxuser said:
So no problems with the developer if the edge markings are fine. We are beginning to narrow it down. Looks like the shutter never opened at all or the film never advanced. I presume that the roll is clear as opposed to black which might be the case if the shutter remained open while the film passed through.

Looks like a camera problem rather than a developer problem. These things are of course always unsettling especially if you are convinced that you did nothing wrong.

pentaxuser

I never thought about the film not advancing....given that I am new to this camera that could be the culprit......maybe I need to practice with a bad roll and see.

Thank you. And maybe this is what I get for cheating on my pentax.....

mps · Apr 25, 2008

Solved the problem!

Okay so I just learned that I had/have no idea how to load film into a Konica AutorelexT4. I am really embarrassed by this one and I guess I should have looked for some instructions on how to do that but I was just so eager to try it out that I left on a trip without doing any research about the camera! Thanks for listening(reading)! I really enjoy this site and have learned a lot so far. I hope I don't come back with the same mistake though.

Thanks - Meghan

nickandre · Apr 25, 2008

Now that that's taken care of-It's always a little entertaining/annoying in our school's darkroom. Occasionally after a weekend shooting you get 4 people processing simultaneously. Then even more occasionally some numskull pours the fix back into the developer. It's a little funny unless you're one of the four.

bdial · Apr 25, 2008

Next time you load the camera, turn the rewind knob enough to take up any slack once you've closed up the camera and you are ready to wind through the leader. You should see it turning on its own each time you advance. If it doesn't turn at each advance, something's wrong.
Be gentle, you only need to turn it until you start to feel some resistance.

haris · Apr 26, 2008

As bdial said, look at revinding crank it needs to rotate when you advance film.

Oh, and when you use rangefinder camera be sure to take lens cap off the lens and not to have finger, camera strap or else in front of lens. I think you will know why I am talking this...

thebanana · Apr 26, 2008

I've made my first mistake many times.

pentaxuser · Apr 26, 2008

mps. Don't forget that if the film edge markings have been developed just fine and dandy then you can always rule out a developer problem. This is usually what shuts up the irate customer in a mini-lab who is convinced that the lab has done something wrong in the processing!

pentaxuser

Nicholas Lindan · Apr 26, 2008

mps said:
I never thought about the film not advancing

My old Exa cameras did this all the time - the sprocket 'wheel' was a thin rod with 4 sprockets. Especially bad with home-loaded cassettes.

Also my Nikon F3/MD4 with an SB16 light mounted over the rewind knob. The rewind knob would catch a little bit on the SB16 and then the 1/4 horse motor in the MD4 drive would rip the *&@#^ out of the film. I should never load film with the flash attached ... I tell myself that every time I see the frame counter has maxed-out at 40.

Always check that the rewind knob is turning backwards when you advance the film.

Modern cameras with IR sprocket sensors don't have the problem.

Bob Carnie · Apr 26, 2008

Hi Meagan

I see your problem is solved.

Even if the dev went bad you would have had some type of image.
When we have problematic film processing, first thing we look for is good density on the numbers and arrows of the film, if they are there we know that that some sort of development happened.
No numbers mean no developer.
Unusually high base density and fog, usually means improper fix , this can be redone in fresh fix after the fact.
Minus density on film usually means under development and or improper stop which allows areas of the film to continue on with development creating a pattern.
Plus density on film usually means a fotoflow problem , which if on the base side of the film easily fixed , on the emulsion much harder to get off.
kinking or crescent moons on the film usually mean careless operator loading film.
film image and notches / numbers very faint usually means under development .
film image and notches/numbers really heavy usually means over dev.

These are some quick guides we use to find culprits.. I imagine we could add a few hundred others to this list.

We have found lately ,,, last few years clients purchasing cheap film through the internet , camera stores that have sat in not ideal conditions and are impossible to load onto reels . The film is so nasitily curled that basically useless.
This has forced us to reconsider all our processing services at our Lab.

mps said:
update.....

Checked the shutter with lens off and it seems to be working just fine.

Anyone have any experience with DDX going bad?

MattKing · Apr 26, 2008

bdial said:
Next time you load the camera, turn the rewind knob enough to take up any slack once you've closed up the camera and you are ready to wind through the leader. You should see it turning on its own each time you advance. If it doesn't turn at each advance, something's wrong.
Be gentle, you only need to turn it until you start to feel some resistance.

I used to work selling cameras in camera stores. Every time I sold a 35mm camera to someone who wasn't particularly experienced, I would try to get the chance to show the customer how to use it. This is the exact technique I tried to teach.

You can tell how long ago this was - none of the cameras I sold had powered film winding (unless the customer purchased an accessory winder).

Matt

David William White · Apr 28, 2008

This is a great troubleshooting guide. It seems to me that APUG could help new or occasional film photographers if posts like Bob's could be put in a special FAQ that could be easily found -- maybe like the 'stickies' on RFF. Even better if this could be collaboratively developed (& maybe with scanned samples). Not anything deep, just 'common problems'.

Bob Carnie said:
Hi Meagan

I see your problem is solved.

Even if the dev went bad you would have had some type of image.
When we have problematic film processing, first thing we look for is good density on the numbers and arrows of the film, if they are there we know that that some sort of development happened.
No numbers mean no developer.
Unusually high base density and fog, usually means improper fix , this can be redone in fresh fix after the fact.
Minus density on film usually means under development and or improper stop which allows areas of the film to continue on with development creating a pattern.
Plus density on film usually means a fotoflow problem , which if on the base side of the film easily fixed , on the emulsion much harder to get off.
kinking or crescent moons on the film usually mean careless operator loading film.
film image and notches / numbers very faint usually means under development .
film image and notches/numbers really heavy usually means over dev.

These are some quick guides we use to find culprits.. I imagine we could add a few hundred others to this list.

We have found lately ,,, last few years clients purchasing cheap film through the internet , camera stores that have sat in not ideal conditions and are impossible to load onto reels . The film is so nasitily curled that basically useless.
This has forced us to reconsider all our processing services at our Lab.

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