First Medium Format Camera - Advice

David_A

Member
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
32
Format
Medium Format
Q.G. said:
Hmmm... indeed.

You really think that what makes one tool better than another tool is also what makes you a good or a better photographer?
Click to expand...

I don't but it seems you do, what your saying is if your not using a Rollei, Hasselblad, or Mamiya 6x7, then your not grown up and your just using entry level stuff, therefore your work will be second rate because your not using a Rollei, Hasselblad, or Mamiya 6x7.

Most photographers who use those systems you have just rubbished will find your remarks insulting.

David
 

Q.G.

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
5,535
Location
Netherlands
Format
Medium Format
5stringdeath said:
Sigh .. I spent the $5 for the body, the lens just happened to be attached to it at the time. My point was your quoting me from another NON MF thread is irrelevant here, and not helping the OP. Ok?
Click to expand...

You ask a question, so i'll answer.

No, it's not O.K., because the quote was relevant, showing that we share the believe that not everything is as good as everything else.

And you are quite right in believing that. Because, no matter how egalitarian many people like to be, it's quite simply so that not everything is as good as everything else.
That's a matter of fact. There's nothing elitist about it.
 

5stringdeath

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
600
Location
St. Louis
Format
35mm

Conversely, really bad work can be made with really good cameras.
 

Q.G.

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
5,535
Location
Netherlands
Format
Medium Format

That, David, is not something i said, or even implied.
So if you take issue with it, you're knocking on the wrong door.

David_A said:
Most photographers who use those systems you have just rubbished will find your remarks insulting.
Click to expand...

And there you go again, equating the quality of a tool to the quality of the work produced.
 

Chazzy

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
2,942
Location
South Bend,
Format
Multi Format

Add me to the people who would rather you didn't quote someone we have on our ignore lists.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,389
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
tkamiya said:
Can we stop this argument before it goes waaaaaay off to the left?
Click to expand...

And here I was thinking the discussion had gone waaaaaay off to the right!
 

lxdude

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
7,094
Location
Redlands, So
Format
Multi Format

Anything spent is recoverable in whole or large part, because very little depreciation remains. Switching would incur little or no additional cost.

Maybe in absolute terms, Bronica cameras and lenses don't equal Hasselblad cameras and lenses. But I don't care. I got a Bronica to learn on. I wanted to see what I thought of MF, particularly with an interchangeable lens SLR. I find the PE lenses to be damn good. Maybe eventually I will have a Hasselblad. I know for a long time I would not have gotten one because I had no interest in square format. That might change.

I had a limited amount of money to put into acquiring MF equipment. If I pay more for each piece I get fewer pieces. The point of getting more pieces is to learn more. For around the price of a KEH BGN 500C body with back and WLF and 50, 80, and short tele C type lenses, I got 40mm, 75mm, 105mm 1:1 macro, 135mm, 150mm, and 250mm lenses, an AEIII finder, and various accessories. I would like a 50mm, and maybe a 180mm instead of the 150, the 135, or both. I'm not sure. That's a good thing.
The point is I bought the setup to learn MF, learn 645 format and figure out what I like and don't. I'm not sure the 4:3 ratio is for me. If I decide it's not and sell all my 645 stuff it will be without regret. It would also make moot the questions in my mind about whether the Pentax or Mamiya 645's would be better for me than the Bronica. I would have learned much and would recover my outlay in total or close to it. Any money I didn't recover would in my mind have been well spent.
I chose the ETR-Si partly because it was cheap, but mainly because it was more different from what I was used to than the Pentax or Mamiya 645's. I wanted to try a camera without an instant-return mirror and focal plane shutter. I wanted to see what using an SLR with leaf shutters was like.
If I had hated the mirror blackout, then I would have had a pretty good idea that the Hasselblad 500's, Bronica SQ's and GS, and RB/RZ's were likely to bother me, too.

It's a starting point. I don't know what the end-of-quest system will be, because I don't know where the quest will end. I don't want to pick one and designate it as such just because it is widely revered. I don't even know what the format will be. I don't see the need to try every camera out there; right now I'm trying to get a feel for my preferred format. Maybe I'll cut the 645 down to 3 lenses and use the money to get an SQA or GS-1 or Pentax 67, plus a couple lenses, just to compare.

Maybe after Kodachrome's gone I'll sell all my 35mm stuff and go into MF or LF, and be lxdude in name only. Or keep a little, or keep it all, including the Nikon stuff.
Everything I have has prices that have largely stabilized. There's no reason to sweat much. I can sell something and buy another like it for about the same price if I change my mind. No need to get caught up in hard and fast decisions at the outset.

Though it may sound like it, I'm not the type to buy and sell, on a never-ending quest for something "better". I choose something I like and stick to it, and only change when I think there's a good reason. I'm just speaking of possibilities. The way things are now the format and equipment options abound.
 

lxdude

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
7,094
Location
Redlands, So
Format
Multi Format

avpman

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
18
Format
35mm
The size matters!

I think one of the most important decisions to make is the size of the negative. As a former Mamiya 6X7 owner I can tell a big difference in the quality of prints...but what a beast it is to haul around! Plus, the rate at which it eats film is also maddening. I always wanted to be able to take medium format camera with me without hauling a big bag/case of any sort, and I found that Fuji 645 rangefinder is a wonderful camera! It's not the fastest camera in the world (I am used to a Nikon F5, so everything else I own focuses slow). But, it's very compact for a medium format camera, 6x45 format allows for 16 shots on one roll, it sets ISO automatically if you are using barcoded film, film advance is motorized, it burns exposure data onto the film between the frames (very useful), has a decent autofocus, and even has a built in flash! It has a feel of a big 35mm rangefinder, and I like it a lot! Your primary shooting mode with it is vertical, but I mostly shoot vertical anyway. And that Fujinon lens is tack sharp!

But it should not be your only camera....you need a good SLR with 2-3 lenses to really squeeze everything out of medium format that it can deliver. TLR is certainly worthy of consideration, especially a well-kept Rollei. Prices have been dropping of lately, if you like square - Hassy, Rollei SLR (nice, but $$$) and Kiev (massaged by Hartblei). By the way, they use new soup cans to make Kievs nowdays, old ones are made out of used soup cans. Main attraction of Kiev is access to cheaper glass, some of which, including russian and Jena is quite nice for the money. In 6x45 Mamiya probably is the top choice in both manual and auto focus, with most inventory out there, Contax is probably close second, but it still demands high $$$. I truly wish I'd bought a Contax when I had a chance, could have gotten a STEAL on a new outfit with two backs, body, 80mm, AE prism for $1500, the guy REALLY needed the money....and I REALLY did not have any. Cost of glass is still prohibitive, but it's probably the best glass you'll ever work with.

KEH is awesome, no used dealer can be recommended higher. I hope I helped more than I confused you...
 

wclark5179

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
504
Format
35mm RF
Hey folks,

All of this film medium format equipment is a bargain now compared to what the stuff sold for when brand new and the used market was much higher back then. Just to cite an example from my little world, the last new Hasselblad film camera I bought was a 501CM back in 2003. It was a kit with an 80mm f 2,8 Zeiss Lens, the 120A back and the regular finder. I paid around $3200 for the kit from B&H. Then I added the Prism w/light meter and that was around $1100.00. I bought a 180mm Zeiss lens and that was over $3000.00. Get the picture?

Recently I bought a 500C body from KEH for $170.00. When I received it, I thought it was brand new. And it works like a charm.

For those of you considering medium format film, now is a great time to dive into it, especially considering where used prices were 5-7 years ago.

So enjoy medium format.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,389
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
wclark5179 said:
All of this film medium format equipment is a bargain now compared to what the stuff sold for when brand new and the used market was much higher back then.
Click to expand...

When I started photography in junior high school, I could only dream of the MF cameras. I wanted a Bronica S in the worst way. Even ten years ago, I could only dream of owning a Hasselblad. Thanks to the digital revolution, I now own two Nikons and two Hasselblads!

Kwitchurbitchin'

Steve
 

John Koehrer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,277
Location
Aurora, Il
Format
Multi Format

Using a pistol grip gives a better balance & puts the weight directly over your hand.
 

John Koehrer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,277
Location
Aurora, Il
Format
Multi Format
Ooooooooo, a spat!
Any of the brands mentioned will work. One may work better than another. Someone mentioned trying several to find the one that fits best. That can work pretty well. The only thing that is really an investment is the time to try them all.
So to that end consider this.
*Inexpensive folder with guesstimate focus between $25-$100. With a rangefinder it can go to several hundred for a more unusual piece.
*Inexpensive TLR Yashicas, Ricoh, Rolleicord, Mamiya TLRs. $50-$200.
*Expensive TLR Rolleiflex $150->
*SLRs Bronica, Mamiya RB, RZ $150->
*Hasselblad, Rollei SLR Bronica GS-1 $350->
*Mamiya 6,7,7ll $750->
IMO for not a lot of $$$ Bronica or Mamiya RB for $200-$300 gets an SLR w/normal lens, finder & film back.
Hasselblad, Rollei SLRs and the Bronica GS-1 tend to cost more along with additional lenses.
Many times someone comes across a find like the Hasselblad at the thrift store. You can't count on that happening too often.
 

photomat-

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
57
Format
Medium Format

photobum

Member
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
418
Location
Northern Vir
Format
Large Format
I knew when I first posted an answer that this would go far afield. I will accept some blame for my "used soup can" crack. But my point was addressed to the need for "economic". We seem to be overlooking that requested requirement.

This war of, my camera can beat up your camera, is just plain stupid. Entry level vs. Pro equipment. Really?

Forty years ago I made a living with a TLR Yashica. Entry level, sure but it paid my bills. Then with a change of careers I kept photography as a love and hobby. Now I have a Hasseblad system, that I don't really use that much and a Rolleiflex that goes everywhere. I guess I prefer TLR's. That's just me. Not for anyone else. But... that cheap entry Yashica fed me and if I did my part made wonderful prints. If I make a wonderful print now it's not because of the high end name on my camera.

Find a camera type that fit's you. Don't fall into that camera/lens envy crap. Camera/lens snobs tend to show their cameras, not their prints.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,389
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format



I never said my Hasselblad system can beat up your Rolleiflex. Both are good. Even my circa 1935 Certo Dolly Supersport folding camera is good. All three have a common feature - Zeiss lenses. Nothing beats a good piece of glass!

Steve
 

dnk512

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
54
Location
Austin TX
Format
Multi Format
Read photobum's message again Good advice!

In case the 'Find a camera type that fit's you' needs clarification, here are my 2c

You will not know what type is your type till you try it. No one can tell you what fits you the best. If you have friends with gear perhaps you can borrow and try. If you have the time, you can buy to try, then sell. There is so much medium format gear at such low cost now days that most folks have several medium format cameras/systems.

My low end TLR is my most carried. My rangefinder needs repair... my SLR is not for sale as it gives me interchangeable lenses, through the lens viewing etc.

I have said it before, a low end, quality TLR (yashicamat, autocord, diacord) will not break the bank, and you can afford to keep it even if you grow into another brand/system.
 

keithwms

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
6,220
Location
Charlottesvi
Format
Multi Format
dnk512 said:
You will not know what type is your type till you try it.
Click to expand...

Strongly agreed!

I am ~40 cameras from where I started in medium format (with a Fuji GA645Zi that I still sorely miss every now and then). And I still find regular use for 8 or so different MF bodies. So I predict that you will eventually want more than one. Thus it's really not sensible to get tied in a knot wondering which one is the very best entry point. Diversity is what analogue photography has aplenty... diversity of gear, diversity of process... embrace it and find your own way!
 

lxdude

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
7,094
Location
Redlands, So
Format
Multi Format
Q.G. said:
Yes.
Notice in particular how he started using a Yashica, ended up having a Hasselblad and Rolleiflex.
Click to expand...

You're distorting what he said to make your point. He in no way said anything against his Yashica, nor did he say there was anything wrong with starting out with it or using the Yashica to pay his bills at one time in his life.

He also said his Hasselblad collects dust, while he would never part with his Rollei, or words to that effect. The point he was making, as I read it, is that people should figure out what type of camera works for them.

Which I think is good solid advice.

People have a lot of fun with Ricoh, Yashica, Minolta, Mamiya and Seagull TLR's. Ok, they're not Rolleiflexes, but they also don't cost like one. Not everyone feels they have to have the ultimate whatever.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

lxdude

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
7,094
Location
Redlands, So
Format
Multi Format
Tom Kershaw said:
I have the SQ system but not the ETRSi and was wondering how much smaller the ETRSi was in "real world" terms. Thanks for the link.

Tom
Click to expand...

Someone else asked this recently, and I figured it out, according to Tamron's specs.
As I recall, the main difference is that the SQ-Ai with back and WLF is about half an inch longer and about half a pound heavier. From the looks of it the prism will be taller than the ER-Si's.

www.Tamron.com/bronica/

On the left side of the page, click on SLR Camera Archives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…