First Lith Print. Need Advice

This morning is the first time I've tried Lith Printing. The results weren't as I had hoped, but as I expected (not too good).

I used Fotospeed LD20 developer and mixed it according to the instructions, I over-exposed the print and it took 21 minutes in the developer to get to this point.

The next two prints I over-exposed as well but the second one took 29 minutes in the developer to get any density to it (but still not nearly enough) and the third took 39 minutes which by that time the developer had been exhausted and it had the pepper fogging.

I read in the instructions to expect to get 3 8x10 prints out of each batch but I figured since I was just starting I would try 5x7 hoping I could do more prints. My question is did the prints have to soak so long in the developer because I didn't expose the print enough or did I not mix developer correctly or something else?

I would surely appreciate any insight on this.

I also use FotoSpeed Lith developer & my starting times for 1st print are around 8, 2nd around 13 & 3rd around 20 mins. I overexpose at least 2 stops, eg a normally 30 sec exposure goes to 2 mins. Hope this helps.

I have use mostly Kodalith (no longer made) but the best resource is Tim Rudman's book. I try to keep the development time to somewhere between 12 and 18 minutes. I have experienced chemical fogging with longer development times. One key point to remember is that contrast is controlled with exposure. The less the exposure the more contrast. Lith printing can be an adventure and does take a lot of time. I have repeated set ups and chemistry as exactly as possible and gotten different results. What paper are you using? Stay with it and you will get some good results that I am sure you will like.

I used Kentmere Fineprint F.G. Warmtone paper. I ordered Tim Rudman's book yesterday, but I couldn't resist trying today since I can only use the darkroom on Wednesdays and Saturdays. Even though its expensive, I am really intrigued by this process so I will definitely stick with it.

I'm thinking that I didn't expose my print long enough. The exposure for the one I attached in the original message was only doubled and the other prints I increased by only 50% over proper exposure and the last one I just doubled.

Overexpose 2-3 stops to start with, you can do more for low contrast. Stick with it, it is beautifull!!!!

My times are about 3-5 minutes with Champion Nova Lith 1:12 2-3 stops brighter than normal exposure times.

t_nunn said:

This morning is the first time I've tried Lith Printing. The results weren't as I had hoped, but as I expected (not too good).

I used Fotospeed LD20 developer and mixed it according to the instructions, I over-exposed the print and it took 21 minutes in the developer to get to this point.

The next two prints I over-exposed as well but the second one took 29 minutes in the developer to get any density to it (but still not nearly enough) and the third took 39 minutes which by that time the developer had been exhausted and it had the pepper fogging.

I read in the instructions to expect to get 3 8x10 prints out of each batch but I figured since I was just starting I would try 5x7 hoping I could do more prints. My question is did the prints have to soak so long in the developer because I didn't expose the print enough or did I not mix developer correctly or something else?

I would surely appreciate any insight on this.

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It may be that the developer exhausted too quickly, or you gave a bit too much exposure which resulted in lower than expected contrast, even if you are printing 10x8 sheets of paper, use a tray big enough for 16x12 inch prints to ensure that you have a larger volume of the working strength developer which will exhaust less rapidly.
You may find this link usefull if you don`t already have this information.
http://www.fotospeed.com/files/techdata/Fotospeed LD20 Lith Instr.pdf

For what it's worth, I mix up buckets of dev. I usually start with 3 litres, regardless of paper size, and top up a little every couple of prints to keep results consistent. 4 litres of solution should see you through a session. Your dev times are also quite long. For me, 20 mins is the max I like to leave the paper in. You could try a slightly less dilute solution. Depending on the required outcome, I usually aim for about 15 mins.

In regards to your question, the length of exposure determines the overall contrast of the print. 20 mins is not unusual. The strength of developer determines the length of development, and as mentioned above, I'd experiment with a slightly stronger solution (but not much).

For me, lith printing is a labour of love: it is time consuming, sometimes frustrating, and occasionally temps me to trash the darkroom. However, when you get one right, it's all worth it. (BTW, your first attempt was a lot better than mine.)

Geoff

Thanks Geoff. I had read that adding a little of the exhausted developer to a fresh batch helps achieve better results so I'm going to try that this week. I think the main thing I screwed up on was the print exposure time. I didn't give any of them nearly enough time. Basically what I need to do is set aside one evening where I do nothing but lith printing, try a few of the suggestions and see what works best for me.

Bob Carnie said:

My times are about 3-5 minutes with Champion Nova Lith 1:12 2-3 stops brighter than normal exposure times.

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Bob, where do you get your Novalith? I can't find it at any of the usual websites I use.

gwatson said:

For me, lith printing is a labour of love:when you get one right, it's all worth it.
Geoff

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I will endorse that. The paper I have had the best results with is Forte Polywarmtone. A beautiful range of colours and very subtle.

Hi Travis

Adding a little exhausted dev ('old brown') is standard, but be careful. The first couple of prints in lith dev are fairly cold - old brown will get the dev sol up to speed quickly. The aim is to maintain that premium satuation.

The image you uploaded is not a million miles off. A bit more exposure and pull as soon as the shadows reach the density you require. Using 3 litres of sol will enable you to make a mistake and rectify it next time round.

Geoff

PS: Polywarmtone is excellent IMO. Can get a bit too pink for some tastes though.

I've seen enough people recommend Forte Polywarmtone that I'm going to try that next. Personally, I really like the Kentmere papers a lot, but my view on trying new things is that if I don't experiment and try different papers, film, etc... then I can't make informed decisions about my likes and dislikes.

Beautiful picture!

I haven't really printed lith, but here's a thought: isn't it the hydroquinone that exhausts in the developer? In that case, you might try adding a small amount of powdered hq for each print. It dissolves quickly. Possibly you need a wee bit of sulfite as well. The other components, probably carbonate, formaldehyde and bromide, may not need replenishing.

psvensson said:

Beautiful picture!

I haven't really printed lith, but here's a thought: isn't it the hydroquinone that exhausts in the developer? In that case, you might try adding a small amount of powdered hq for each print. It dissolves quickly. Possibly you need a wee bit of sulfite as well. The other components, probably carbonate, formaldehyde and bromide, may not need replenishing.

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Thanks for the compliment and advice. I don't have any of those chemicals around and I don't know where to get them other than Photographers Formulary. I just read the other day about this in Tim Rudman's book and I was hoping to find other ways around it, although I guess I should give it a try since it will probably give me better results. The only darkroom I have access to is at a community college in my area and people already laugh at me because I bring in a huge bag of my own chemicals (the college photo club provides chemistry for members, but I prefer to bring most of my own). I guess a few more bottles won't hurt.

So far, I've had decent luck with changing the dilution. The instructions included with Fotospeed say to mix it 15 ml to 485 ml of water which is just under a 1:33 dilution (for both parts A and B) but on Fotospeed's website, Rudman recommends anywhere from a 1:9 to 1:19 dilution. I tried a 1:15 dilution along with a little "old brown" today and I achieved much better results and my developer lasted much longer. Now I just have to start snatching the print at the right moment.

Travis

I would recommend 1:10 dilution, one part old chemistry, before you print put in 5-8 sheets of fogged paper to season the developer.
I am using champion nova lith, which is in fact fotospeed.

8oo mm A - 800 mm of B -8000ml of water at 20degree -, 1000ml of old developer - 5 -8 sheets of fogged paper- 2-3 stops more exposure than a normal negative- 3-5 minutes of development time (constant agitation) till the blacks emerge. Paper is Macoe G2 , Oriental G4 , Sterling Lith(new emulsion)

If this does not work then I would strengthen the bulb in your enlarger or increase exposure or back off on the densitys of your negatives.

Bob

Bob, thank you for clearing that up for me. I've been all over the internet looking for champion nova lith and now I find that I've had it all along. Also, thanks for the recommendations. I'm still searching for what works for me. I'll give it a try this week.