First go at printing

Carriage · Feb 9, 2015

Had a go at some printing tonight. Top left was the test for the right two. Was aiming for the 2nd band in the test for the two "good ones", not sure what happened. Bottom left was another test but I stuffed up the mask timing and forgot to stop down the lens. I'm not sure what the bits off the edge are. I also had a hell of a time keeping things to temperature (may be the cause of some of the later issues). I'd get the developer to 19 degrees and by the time I'd set up the enlarger and exposed the paper, the developer was quickly approaching 21. Probably a combination of me being slow and it being ~30 degrees today. Also, I had to blutack the contrast filter to the lens. No idea how it's supposed to fit properly. There may be a part missing.

Clearly I have have more practice to do, but hey, pictures on paper

Neal · Feb 9, 2015

Congratulations! You're on your way.

Neal Wydra

mauro35 · Feb 9, 2015

A temperature of 19 or 21 degrees centigrade in the developer should not cause any significant difference. The 21 degree developer might be just slightly faster at reaching completion. Do you have a filter carrier in your enlarger?

MattKing · Feb 9, 2015

Isn't it great fun?

Within reason, if your problem is ambient temperatures that are too warm, you probably don't have a problem . If you start to get into the 35-40C temperature range, you probably need air conditioning anyways.

Fill your tray with developer in the normal way, and then let it sit for a half hour. Now measure the temperature.

That temperature should be your working temperature for that session.

It should work fine. If necessary, you could adjust it a bit by diluting it a bit more that recommended, but most likely that won't be necessary.

The one thing you might want to adjust is your total developing time. To fine tune that, you may want to research "factorial development", but probably not quite yet. For now, just use something in the middle of the recommended range.

If your ambient temperatures vary from session to session, you will need to update your test prints if you want to match a print from a previous session, but as a beginning printer you will need to do that anyways.

Working at ambient temperature takes away any concerns about temperature shock, because all the solutions will be at the same temperature. Your wash temperature should be close as well.

If you are working at higher temperatures, your papers will be slightly more prone to damage - so be careful of scratching the prints.

All of this advice is predicated on your using commonly used chemicals in a black and why workflow. For colour, temperatures are critical.

Cooler than normal temperatures are more of a problem.

cliveh · Feb 9, 2015

Great start and remember practice makes perfect.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 9, 2015

Yes, yes. It's an outstanding start. And you are to be commended for being willing to show the world that early start. Most wouldn't. That can be a little scary. Doing so shows a strong desire to learn and improve. That's crucial. Congratulations.

You know now not only how to get a photograph on paper, you know that you actually can. In software development that's called your "Hello world" milestone. Or more formally, a successful minimum vertical slice through the new task.

From here on out your continuing results become your feedback loop. They will tell you what direction you need to move. And when that direction isn't always as clear as you might need, just come back here.

Members are always willing to lend a helping hand. Each and every one of them has in the past climbed exactly the same learning curve. And made exactly the same errors.

Ken

Carriage · Feb 9, 2015

Do you have a filter carrier in your enlarger?

Yeah, I seem to have two. There's the one built in to the enlarger that slides in above the negative holder. This seems it's for the

sheet type filters. I've got a set kind of like this

The slot/tray

looking thing is similar but I've got a kind of magnifying glass without glass thing instead of the 3 legged stool with a hole thing and

couldn't work out where to attach it without blocking the focusing movement. There's a decent chance there's a part missing.

There's also tape around the aperture ring that may indicate Dad had the same problem back in the day.

A temperature of 19 or 21 degrees centigrade in the developer should not cause any significant difference. The 21 degree

developer might be just slightly faster at reaching completion.

It was more of a window of 19-21 before it got back up to around 24. I'd then pour it into a beaker, put that in an ice bath to cool it

back to 19.

It should work fine. If necessary, you could adjust it a bit by diluting it a bit more that recommended, but most likely that

won't be necessary.

The one thing you might want to adjust is your total developing time. To fine tune that, you may want to research "factorial

development", but probably not quite yet. For now, just use something in the middle of the recommended range.

How do I know how to compensate? Trial and error? I'm using Ilford Multigrade and their datasheets just give 1min or 1.5min

depending on dilution at 20C+-1C. I found a temperature compensation sheet for film development but nothing for paper. Is there

something I should be looking for to tell if it's done or not?

Working at ambient temperature takes away any concerns about temperature shock, because all the solutions will be at

the same temperature. Your wash temperature should be close as well.

I didn't realise this was a thing. My stop and fixer were at around 24 but I wasn't monitoring them as much. This was the upper

edge given in the ilford data sheet for paper developing.

Thanks for all the kind words and advice, everyone.

NedL · Feb 9, 2015

That's awesome! Have fun with it.

Save some of those.... I'm glad I have some prints from when I first started so that progress is easy to see.

Luis-F-S · Feb 9, 2015

You could find a used Zone VI developing darkroom timer and use it to compensate for changes in the development temp for both film & paper.........................L

Maris · Feb 9, 2015

I reckon temperature concerns for paper development are highly irrelevant.

Paper is developed to completion, that is when half a minute or so extra development makes no difference in appearance. Cold developer takes a longer time, hot developer a shorter time, and just by watching you know when the time is right. If the picture is too dark reduce exposure, if too light increase exposure. Don't try to adjust density by altering development time or temperature. I've used Dektol 1+2 (a very common developer) at temperatures from 15 Celcius up to 35 Celcius and as long as the paper develops to completion the pictures are just fine.

Christopher Walrath · Feb 9, 2015

Sounds like you are on your way. I think the best piece of advise would be to dance with who you brung. Don't start thinking about switching films or papers or chems just yet. Master what you have and then see what might fit your scheme once you really know what you are doing. Print with a purpose, not just pell mell and willy nilly hither and yon. Know what you want a print to look like and then be your own worst critic until you get it the way you like it, not just a way that you can live with.

Keep on keepin on.

Sirius Glass · Feb 9, 2015

Start with one film, one film developer, one print developer, and one paper. And stay with it until you really know it.

MattKing · Feb 10, 2015

Maris said:
I reckon temperature concerns for paper development are highly irrelevant.

Paper is developed to completion, that is when half a minute or so extra development makes no difference in appearance. Cold developer takes a longer time, hot developer a shorter time, and just by watching you know when the time is right. If the picture is too dark reduce exposure, if too light increase exposure. Don't try to adjust density by altering development time or temperature. I've used Dektol 1+2 (a very common developer) at temperatures from 15 Celcius up to 35 Celcius and as long as the paper develops to completion the pictures are just fine.

+1

My suggestion is to use a development time right in the middle of the manufacturer's range. At 30C, it might be longer than necessary, but it won't hurt.

Just be sure to avoid the very great temptation to pull the print out before your target time. Use exposure to vary the darkness of the print, not development time (at least for now).

The reason you use ambient temperature is that it allows you

Carriage · Feb 10, 2015

I'm using Ilford multigrade developer and their paper and they just give 20 degrees plus or minus 1. Apparently they still work okay at higher temperatures though (random forum posts).

MattKing · Feb 10, 2015

Carriage said:
I'm using Ilford multigrade developer and their paper and they just give 20 degrees plus or minus 1. Apparently they still work okay at higher temperatures though (random forum posts).

In that case, in higher ambient temperatures I would definitely recommend using the higher dilution (1 + 14). You should expect less capacity and shorter tray life than if you were working in more temperate conditions.

mauro35 · Feb 10, 2015

Carriage said:
Yeah, I seem to have two. There's the one built in to the enlarger that slides in above the negative holder. .

A set of filters for that will be quite inexpensive if you want to avoid the problem of fitting the other holder.
They are something like this, just to give an example:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/114880-REG/Ilford_1762640_Multigrade_Filter_Set.html

I tend to like them better. The only concern could be that since they are closer to the light source, they might heat-up with long exposure times.

Carriage · Feb 10, 2015

I had another go last night. My scanner seems to be making the images come out blue. The paper looks like proper black and white though.

From left to right, top to bottom, 1. Test strip where I forgot to step down. 2. New test strip. 3. Attempted print. 4. Attempted print #2 (damaged with tongs). 5. Decent small print. 6. Test for Larger image below

A ~10x7 print.

I'm pretty pleased with how the last couple came out. I'm not sure what happened to picture 3. I expected it to come out like picture 5 did. There's also an almost square bit in the top corner that's lighter. Something I didn't realise but was obvious in hindsight is that the larger pics take longer to expose (same energy, larger area). Is it standard practice to use a larger piece of paper than the desired print, mask and trim or is it common to try to print the entire image to the edge? Is it a personal/artistic preference? It seemed easier once I realised the paper was getting caught on a spring using the mask but means my images will tend to be slightly undersized. Chemical temperatures were around 26C which appears to have worked fine. Though, I did drop my thermometer which introduced air bubbles in the alcohol. I heated it up a couple of times to near its limit and it got rid of them but I'm not 100% sure it's still accurate. I'll need to do some testing.

MattKing · Feb 10, 2015

Narrow (1/4 inch) borders are fairly common. Some prefer wider.

If you buy "standard" photo frames or mats, most likely the openings they allow for the prints assume 1/4" borders.

I put "standard" between quotation marks because there are a lot of different standards.

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