First go at bulk loading, ended up with short rolls

I’ve just processed my first roll of bulk loaded film. I was expecting to get 36 exposures out of it but ended up with only 31. I was reloading Tmax cassettes by sticking the bulk film to a short length of film that I left protruding from the cassette. I am sure dedicated reloadable cassettes would be my best bet but as these are my first steps into bulk loading I wanted to try reusing existing cassettes and I know many others do this successfully.

My process was as follows: 1) Load bulk film into Watson type loader leaving short length protruding into the ‘loading area’. 2) Join bulk film to the film sticking out of the cassette using tape. 3) close the loading area and crank the handle listening for 36 clicks. 4) Opened the loading area and pulled through another couple of inches of film before cutting the cassette from the bulk roll. 5) trimmed a short leader section onto the beginning of the roll. This didn’t involve me pulling any extra out of the cassette, I cut it from the excess pulled from the bulk roll.

The film was shot in a Canon EOS 3 which has automatic film transport. This camera always leaves a gap at the start of the film but always fits 36 exposures on to a factory produced roll. The automatic rewind must have kicked in when it sensed tension at the end of the roll but the problem appears to be at the leader end as there wasn’t an excessively long exposed tail and the last frame of the film didn’t overlap into the exposed tail.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I be counting more than 36 clicks for a 36 exposure roll? Should I be pulling out more bulk film to give myself a longer leader than on a normal film? Is this just an issue with auto-wind cameras? Part of the reason I want to bulk roll is for economy and the best way to achieve this is to get a full 36 exposures out of a film, otherwise I’m just wasting film in leaders and tails.

I know I need to give myself more film inside the cassette but I want to know if someone can identify what I should be doing differently next time. I’ve loaded up 6 cassettes like this, so I’ll work my way through them and have another go soon but any advice is very welcome.

Thanks, Simon

I usually wind on a few extra exposures to compensate for the leader when loading.

not sure

I am not sure those "clicks" are a scientific measure of how much film goes through the loader. The things are sort of low tech. You need to go by experience, not slavish devotion to what the instructions say. I like short rolls myself. Sometimes one finds one making pictures just to finish up the roll. Just a thought.

for a 36 shot load I always count two clicks for the leader, then count 36, then count 2 more for more leader, then open the loader and pull out a couple more inches to allow for the loading length, fogged frames at the far end that commercial loads don't have, and so on.

Usually end up with just about 36 shots, or maybe 37 or 38 at the most, but that 38th is usually halfway fogged, so I watch the film counter and stop after 36.

But, essentially, you need to allow a bit more leader wastage. It's the cost of doing business.

Add five more clicks on your next try, and then see whether that gives you too much.

If you have an uncut "factory" load, see how long it is, then compare it with the length of the ones you have already loaded. I'd be willing to bet the "factory" load is considerably longer.

I load 24 exposure rolls, but count 30 clicks on my Watson loader.

Thanks everyone. It sounds like an extra 4-5 clicks is what is needed. I did process some factory rolls at the same time and they were definitely longer. What I wasn't sure about was whether 36 clicks is meant to be enough to accommodate the leader and I just had a dodgy loader. Or whether I need to add the extra clicks to make up the extra length.

The Watson manual refers to count 4 extra frames.
My Watson 100 does have a frame counter and I use up to 40.

http://www.cameramanuals.org/booklets/watson_film_loader.pdf

Don't some Canon's load the film then retrieve back into the cassette one shot at a time? Don't really know which models do that but if that is one then maybe it senses extra tension from the taped on section and stops. Just a uneducated thought.

If I remember correctly it takes 31 complete crank rotations plus extra film for the leader.

The formula for the length of film you require :-

The number of exposures EG 36 which = 54"
Plus 8" to allow for the leader, spaces between the frames and a bit for the tail end attached to the cassette spool

So for a 36exp film you will need 62", or or in other words 5 feet 2 inches.

Imperial inches or US Standard Inches? What is the conversion factor? Interested readers want to know!

I bulk load MP film with a Watson and put sharpie marks on the zero and the five after realizing that it doesn't load 36. Now I use the mark to load one full revolution of the counter then the extra five. That puts about 40-41 frames on a roll. If you have a Canon camera or another automatic camera though the extra frames will be wasted. Just stick to 36, so zero to zero should do it.

Hope that helps.

My Bulk loader seems to do fine - I don't count the clicks, rather I watch the dial, and so far, I end up with 37 frames. Think it's and old Watson (orange finishes on the dial and handle).

I do reset the counter once I've taped the end to the spool, and start the loading process from there, so maybe that has something to do with it?

Ricardo Miranda said:

The Watson manual refers to count 4 extra frames.
My Watson 100 does have a frame counter and I use up to 40.

http://www.cameramanuals.org/booklets/watson_film_loader.pdf

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, I didn't have a manual as the loader came in a job lot of dark room equipment a bought a few years ago.

I think I can probably squeeze another few frames out of these rolls when I use my OM2 or other manual advance camera but the EOS 3 always leaves an unexposed gap of a good 6-8" after the leader and before the first frame. This always struck me as wasteful, especially now that I know that it can sense the tension at the end of a roll and rewind automatically.

Nige said:

Don't some Canon's load the film then retrieve back into the cassette one shot at a time? Don't really know which models do that but if that is one then maybe it senses extra tension from the taped on section and stops. Just a uneducated thought.

Click to expand...

You are right that some Canons do but not the EOS 3. When you load the film the motor only whirs for a second but it take about ten seconds to rewind when you reach the end of the roll.

Nige

Yes, some Canons, like the EOS 300, do that. Also, 2 Nikon models F55 and F75 are the same.

42 clicks is nearer to a factory load, but the 36 and 37 frame will be fogged using a Watson, unless you also use a dark bag.

I tape the raw film to the spool in the dark, and count 44 clicks when winding. This gives slightly more than 36 exposures.

Do any of you use bits of old/developed leaders as short sections attached to the spool which you then tape the new load to, to reduce waste of those end frames? I've tried that a couple of times but seems like it's more work than it is worth, which bulk loading can be leaning heavily towards anyway.

I run off 42 clicks to account for the leader and what's been exposed at the 'end' of the roll. I watch the camera and stop to rewind after the 36th image.

480sparky said:

I run off 42 clicks to account for the leader and what's been exposed at the 'end' of the roll. I watch the camera and stop to rewind after the 36th image.

Click to expand...

If you have a dark bag and only pull out one inch of film from the trap in daylight stick this to spool attach the cassette put the loader in dark bag then load the cassette into the cassette chamber, opening and closing the trap appropriately...

You may get 37 good frames with no fog, or 36 if unlucky.

Xmas said:

If you have a dark bag and only pull out one inch of film from the trap in daylight stick this to spool attach the cassette put the loader in dark bag then load the cassette into the cassette chamber, opening and closing the trap appropriately...

You may get 37 good frames with no fog, or 36 if unlucky.

Click to expand...

Not worth the effort, considering what I would save. I save far & away enough (better'n 50%) money bulk loading. Trying to save another 0.5% just isn't worth it.

Xmas said:

You may get 37 good frames with no fog, or 36 if unlucky.

Click to expand...

I try to get 35 to a roll--because my Printfile sheets are arranged (kinda oddly, when you think about it) for 7 strips of 5.