First foray into selenium toning. Dissapointing results.

ann · Jul 2, 2005

If you check the information found on the Ilford site, they do recommend the process i spoke of; they also, discuss the two bath method as well.

With the stronger ratio and short fixing times, it is also critical to track the number of prints that are processed per liter.

You feel that the 1 to 4 ratio is wasteful, i feel that using fixer as a one shot process is wasteful. Each to his own.

dancqu · Jul 2, 2005

[QUOTES=ann]
"If you check the information found on the Ilford site,
they do recommend the process i spoke of; they also,
discuss the two bath method as well."

The news is bad. Perhaps it's a matter of time and tide.
We are speaking of film strength, 1:4, Ilford Rapid Fixer
used for FB print fixing are we not?
Ilford, in their August 2002 PDF "Ilford Fact Sheet -
Rapid Fixer", does not distinguish between the 1:4 and
the 1:9 dilution save for the 1 minute 1:4 and the 2
minute 1:9 fix times.

Again from Ilford, the capacity per liter of concentrate
is 200 8x10 FB prints. BUT the capacity per LITER, that
volume of solution, is 10 8x10 prints WHATEVER THE
CONCENTRATION.
According to Ilford that 10 print maximum per liter
volume will achieve the less than .5 gram per liter silver
level needed for archival results.

"You feel that the 1 to 4 ratio is wasteful, i feel that
using fixer as a one shot process is wasteful. Each
to his own."

I use fixer VERY DILUTE. I've been using it 1:49 while
testing developers with RC. I've not tested it any more
dilute than that although I'm tempted to test it at 1:63.

As for the two bath method, Ilford quote, " An
extremely efficient method ... ". Also they say, " Use
the two bath fixing method". That last is in reference to
using sulfide to test for complete fixing; fix two bath,
wash completely, dry, then test with sulfide. Dan

aldevo · Jul 3, 2005

Daniel Lawton said:
In my experience MGIV toned in KRST 1+8 for 5-6 minutes gives a very subtle but pleasing purple hue and in increase in DMAX. I tried MGIV warmtone but the results were too garish and red for my taste but I'll have to experiment with different dilutions. Generally speaking, cool-toned papers like your standard MGIV developed in a neutral-tone paper developer are more resistant to selenium toning. Even with strong dilutions of selenium its tough to get a radical tonal shift. The most dramatic results are achieved with a warmtone paper and a warm tone developer like AGFA Neutol WA.

I second Daniel's observations, they are consistent with my own experience.

gareth harper · Jul 3, 2005

dancqu said:
[QUOTES=ann]
"If you check the information found on the Ilford site,
they do recommend the process i spoke of; they also,
discuss the two bath method as well."

The news is bad. Perhaps it's a matter of time and tide.
We are speaking of film strength, 1:4, Ilford Rapid Fixer
used for FB print fixing are we not?
Ilford, in their August 2002 PDF "Ilford Fact Sheet -
Rapid Fixer", does not distinguish between the 1:4 and
the 1:9 dilution save for the 1 minute 1:4 and the 2
minute 1:9 fix times.

Again from Ilford, the capacity per liter of concentrate
is 200 8x10 FB prints. BUT the capacity per LITER, that
volume of solution, is 10 8x10 prints WHATEVER THE
CONCENTRATION.
According to Ilford that 10 print maximum per liter
volume will achieve the less than .5 gram per liter silver
level needed for archival results.

"You feel that the 1 to 4 ratio is wasteful, i feel that
using fixer as a one shot process is wasteful. Each
to his own."

I use fixer VERY DILUTE. I've been using it 1:49 while
testing developers with RC. I've not tested it any more
dilute than that although I'm tempted to test it at 1:63.

As for the two bath method, Ilford quote, " An
extremely efficient method ... ". Also they say, " Use
the two bath fixing method". That last is in reference to
using sulfide to test for complete fixing; fix two bath,
wash completely, dry, then test with sulfide. Dan

Dan,

I think you are cherry picking, and interpretating things on Ilford's site to suit your own technique or view.

Ilford list a number of different, all valid options for fixing and washing fibre papers on their pdf page at http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/95065d.pdf

Ilford recommend short fix times in Rapid fix (that's 1+4 for one minute).
They also recommend the use of a wash aid.

They also state that the rapid fix (1+4) system is good for 40 10x8 prints per litre.

Rapid fixing for me is the way to go. It's simpler, it's more efficent and it makes washing much easier.

Having said that there is no absolute correct way to do things. Work out the way that best suits your set up.

dancqu · Jul 3, 2005

gareth harper said:
Dan, I think you are cherry picking, and interpretating things
on Ilford's site to suit your own technique or view.

Ilford list a number of different, all valid options for
fixing and washing fibre papers on their pdf page at
http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/95065d.pdf

Ilford recommend short fix times in Rapid fix (that's 1+4
for one minute). They also recommend the use of a wash aid.

They also state that the rapid fix (1+4) system is good for
40 10x8 prints per litre.

Rapid fixing for me is the way to go. It's simpler, it's more
efficent and it makes washing much easier.

Having said that there is no absolute correct way to do
things. Work out the way that best suits your set up.

The pdf you point to covers developer to display and storage
and everything in between. The pdf I pointed to is more
recent and deals with Ilford Rapid Fixer.

I found two items of particular interest in the more
recent pdf. First, as I mentioned in my previous post Ilford
draws no distinction twixt 1:4 and 1:9 other than the 1 or 2
minute time in the fix. Processing for both dilutions is the
same and for archival results capacity is the same,
10 8x10s/ltr.

Second, Ilford in that August 2002 pdf does still suggest
the 5, 10, 5 minute wash, Ilford Wash Aid, wash sequence.
Surprise! One minute or two minutes, 1:4 or 1:9 dilution,
same QUICK wash sequence.

So what's the big deal? Only that Ilford has in the
past been very careful in making it VERY clear that the
ONE minute fix be no more nor less than that. Now it's 1:4
or 1:9, 1 or 2 minutes, same archival capacity per liter
working strength and same suggested 5, 10, 5 wash. Dan

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jan 9, 2007

mikeg said:
I quite like the Kentmere fibre papers, the standard Fineprint VC seems to react quite well to selenium 1+9. After about 8 - 10 minutes it starts to take on the classic purplish tinge. However, I can't seem to get the Fineprint Warmtone paper to change colour at all in selenium. Which seems very surprising as warmtone papers tend to tone better than the more normal versions. Anyone else had any luck with Kentmere Warmtone?

Cheers

Mike

I'm presently noticing the exact same behaviour: Kentmere WT dev'd in PolymaxT is giving me just a barely perceptible hue change in selenium. If anything, it's getting colder! I'll let it soak a bit more but I think it's a paper that needs a WT developer above all. In comparison, Forte Polywarmtone just screams brown in selenium (1+9).

Rob Archer · Jan 10, 2007

I find the colour change with kentmere Warmtone FB is very subtle and I really like the cooler tones it gives - that's the great thing with selenium, the possibilities are endless!

Rob

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jan 10, 2007

It's a nice tone, sure, but I was disappointed that it wasn't warm, as advertised... Maybe I'll try sepia toning it.

First foray into selenium toning. Dissapointing results.

ann

dancqu

aldevo

gareth harper

dancqu

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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First foray into selenium toning. Dissapointing results.

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