First Fiber Prints--Sure doesn't dry flat!

JosBurke · Aug 2, 2007

Tried out Ilford MG Fiber today--my first fiber prints and man I need some tips on drying those prints--- RC is a breeze compared to fiber--Fiber sure doesn't work on my drying screens. Educate me guys or gals--my ignorance is showing !!

brian steinberger · Aug 2, 2007

Joseph,

After washing you need to get the excess water off of the print. I do this by lying the print face down on a clean sheet of plexi (glass, or the bottom of a flat tray would work also) and squeegee the back of the print, lift it, squeegee the surface, then put the print face up and squeegee the front of the print.

I recommend hanging the print by one corner to dry. Once dry there are several means to obtain a flat print that are relatively easy. The best way is by use of a dry mount press, though not everyone has access to one of these. The easier way is with some very heavy books, and some acid free mat board. I don't understand why your drying screens don't work though. Can you elaborate? You need to put the print face down on drying screens. I prefer not to use them however. I find that sometimes they leave the screen marks in the surface of the print.

Stick with fiber paper though, especially Ilford MGIV! Very beautiful stuff!

Vaughn · Aug 3, 2007

Fiber paper will dry relatively flat on screens if placed face down. The only things to worry about is 1) keep the screens clean and 2) use a fix with hardener -- or you'll get the screen marks Brian mentioned.

If you prefer to use a fix without hardener, dry them face up on the screens, then turn them over before they dry completely and start to curl -- the emulsion will harden up some by then.

Any curl the paper may have will disappear on its own with time. To hurry them, place under even weight or flatten them in a dry mount press.

Fiber paper -- worth the extra work!

Vaughn

Matus Kalisky · Aug 3, 2007

I was also surprised after I have dryied my first FB prints (only 4x5 contacts on MACO grade 2 paper). Thy were heavily curled. Well - I found a simple solution. Once they are dry - I place them face down on the ironing board - put a thin cotton cloth over the paper and simply iron them with a steam turned on 10 - 15 seconds. Then I put the warm and slightly wet print in a heavy book for an hour or two. Works great - I have to seen any problem or damage to the print (I have not used hardening fixer eiter).

I have used this approach with matt paper only - I do not know how the glossy papers (I want to try Ilford FB mutigrades) would react. Maybe I have to get a dedicated fiber print dryer then.

Dave Miller · Aug 3, 2007

Joseph, if you use the search facility at the top of the page to look for something like "drying fibre prints" you will find many posts, and lots of useful information on this subject.

Matus, the steam setting is far too high, and will almost certainly damage gloss prints. It will pick up the texture of whatever you have placed your print on.

David H. Bebbington · Aug 3, 2007

One sure-fire method no one has mentioned - hang the prints up as wet as possible in pairs, placed directly in contact back to back. Place numerous clips (such as clothes pegs) along the top edge (making sure not to crease this) and in particular the bottom edge (always print with 1/4" white border to allow handling). The prints will not stick together and will be flat when, at least flat enough to spend some time between two heavy books if total flatness is required.

Regards,

David

BBarlow690 · Aug 3, 2007

Try wrapping two bricks in brown paper, and taping the paper nicely. We used to call these "Zone VI Bricks - $29.95" as a joke (and still do). Gently bend your dried prints against the curl and wedge them between the bricks on a table so the bend is held. Let stand for a couple hours and they'll flatten right out. No bricks? use an empty paper box, curling the prints and wedging them sideways in the box.

If you dry them face down on screens they'll dry reasonably flat, and if you stack the screens leaving little space between them they'll dry flatter still, if much more slowly.

I have never had luck getting flat fiber prints by hanging them to dry. In my experience it works with film and RC paper, but not fiber prints.

jim appleyard · Aug 3, 2007

Yes, fiber can be a pain to dry, but the final image quality is worth it.

Ilford was going to/has come out with a flat fiber paper? There was a thread about it here some time ago.

jim appleyard · Aug 3, 2007

Here 'tis: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

keithwms · Aug 3, 2007

Get yourself a dry-mount press, and interleave the prints in that. This will give you flat prints after a short time (a day or so), even if you don't turn the press on or actual dry-mount the prints. If you interleave the prints with paper (I use tracing paper) then you can put 20 or so prints in at once, close the press, come back the next day and you're done.

Drying prints on a screen, or back-to-back, or weighted can help, but my experience is that nothing compares to what you get if you press 'em. I mean, I actually loathed working with fiber until I discovered what a used $20 press can do.

Now my pressed FB prints are about as flat as RC. And FB is definitely worth the bother in the long run.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Aug 3, 2007

Let the prints dry until there is but a touch of dampness and the paper is still pliable. Then put them between acid-free blotting papers or something similar, and squeeze them under a pile of books. As long as there is a little bit of humidity left in the paper base, but the gelatin has dried enough not to stick to the blotters, you're fine.

MenacingTourist · Aug 3, 2007

I second the drymount press suggestion.

There are three thing that were somewhat costly for me but made my life incredibly easier. They are: Drymount press, Harrison changing tent and Jobo expert drums.

Shawn Dougherty · Aug 3, 2007

David H. Bebbington said:
One sure-fire method no one has mentioned - hang the prints up as wet as possible in pairs, placed directly in contact back to back. Place numerous clips (such as clothes pegs) along the top edge (making sure not to crease this) and in particular the bottom edge (always print with 1/4" white border to allow handling). The prints will not stick together and will be flat when, at least flat enough to spend some time between two heavy books if total flatness is required.

Regards,

David

I've tried this method and it does work quite well...

lee · Aug 3, 2007

the longer the prints take to dry the flatter they will be coming off the screen. Still it is not uncommon to have to use a dry mounting press (temp about 100F) to press them flat. I let the prints dry over night and in the press I let the prints stay in the heated press (between two pieces of 4 ply matt board) for about 30 seconds.

lee\c

z3guy · Aug 3, 2007

I agree with Lee. The drier the air the faster the prints dry and the more they curl. Here in the New England at this time of year, with the high humidity, prints take overnight or longer to dry and have just a slight ripple at most. In the winter with heat on and very low humidity inside they will sometimes almost curl into rolls and roll away. Drying face down helps some and the dry mount press will flatten them well.

Keep using paper as you will appreciate the final product and be glad you left the plastic stuff behind.(my opinion)

Paul

Vaughn · Aug 3, 2007

Good point, Paul. I hadforgotten what low humidity is like. Around here, low humidity is when it is not actually raining.

Vaughn

George Hart · Aug 3, 2007

It's easy! Using half-inch gummed masking tape, attach the print to a flat surface such as a piece of glass. Leave it to dry completely, and the following morning you will have a perfectly flat print! It's best to give it a quick rinse first in a wetting agent (more dilute than recommended on the bottle), and to make sure that there is no standing water underneath the print before you tape it down.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 3, 2007

Only one problem with this. Don't use this method if you're drying two prints of different paper brands. I did this once with one print being on Kentmere Bromide G3, and the other being Ilford MGWT fiber, and when they dried they warped.
But if you're using the same paper throughout the session, go for it. I've used it a lot, and it works great.

- Thomas

David H. Bebbington said:
One sure-fire method no one has mentioned - hang the prints up as wet as possible in pairs, placed directly in contact back to back. Place numerous clips (such as clothes pegs) along the top edge (making sure not to crease this) and in particular the bottom edge (always print with 1/4" white border to allow handling). The prints will not stick together and will be flat when, at least flat enough to spend some time between two heavy books if total flatness is required.

Regards,

David

Rik · Aug 3, 2007

the method that works for me: shake off excess water. leave the prints to dry overnight on a rack or something similar. Then place them 'face up' in a press. Make sure the cloth of the press is clean. Turn the press on for about 10 minutes at medium heat. Then turn the press off, but leave the prints in for another 24 hours. And they are flat.

Marco B · Aug 3, 2007

I agree with George Hart about the drying: use gummed masking tape, also called "watercolor tape". You can buy this tape in any good art shop. It's by far the easiest method and only requires the tape and piece of glass, which may even be your house's windows if they do not receive direct sunlight.

No hassling with dry mount presses, piles of books or otherwise...

I have made a full description of this method as I apply it on my website:

http://www.boeringa.demon.nl/menu_technic_dryingfiberbasedpaper.htm

Marco

Marco Buonocore · Aug 3, 2007

I use a drymount press - works so well, I can't imagine doing otherwise.

I would be wary of suggestions to use a hardening fix. How long does one wash a DW fibre paper that has been fixed with hardener? Ages, I would suspect.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 3, 2007

Please explain how this makes it easy. I don't get it. It seems like a lot of work.
I just dry my prints, hanging in one corner from a clothes pin, or squeegeed and upside down on screens, put it between two sheets of glassine paper and insert into a heavy book. My prints are flat too, and no mess. I don't even have to work hard to do it. You can re-use the glassine too, or use it to store your prints after they're flattened (as a matter of fact, you probably should store them like that).
- Thomas

Marco B said:
I agree with George Hart about the drying: use gummed masking tape, also called "watercolor tape". You can buy this tape in any good art shop. It's by far the easiest method and only requires the tape and piece of glass, which may even be your house's windows if they do not receive direct sunlight.

No hassling with dry mount presses, piles of books or otherwise...

I have made a full description of this method as I apply it on my website:

http://www.boeringa.demon.nl/menu_technic_dryingfiberbasedpaper.htm

Marco

Ole · Aug 3, 2007

I'm not only lazy, but impatient too.

I use a drying oven, AKA "ferrotype press".

MartinB · Aug 3, 2007

I hang prints from clothes pin until dry, then in old dry mount press to flatten. I used heavy books until I found a beat up old press for cheap but the books were a pain. Screens never worked well for me.

I found the amount of curl varies by paper - Ilford and Kentmere are about the least. Lack of humidity does increase curl and getting high humidity here is difficult which is why I bought a press. Check out the 10% humidity reading in the attached image from a highway webcam 150 km east of here!

Curt · Aug 3, 2007

Remove as much water as you can and place them face down on fiberglas screens in a room that is not too hot or cold, room temperature. They won't be flat as glass but they shouldn't be rolled up excessively. I dry mount mine so they end up flat. If you have to go to great extremes then something is not right, like a room temp that is too hot and prints are too wet.

First Fiber Prints--Sure doesn't dry flat!

JosBurke

brian steinberger

Vaughn

Matus Kalisky

Dave Miller

David H. Bebbington

BBarlow690

jim appleyard

jim appleyard

keithwms

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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