First Development, and Some Questions

[videocrew]

Hey, I shot a roll of Tri-X 120 in my Holga and developed it in D-76. I'm frankly surprised that they came out at all, but my local pro lab scanned them and they are really really grainy:

Any insight on where I went wrong? If this is the wrong forum, please excuse me and I'll take my noobie self to the right place.

Thanks!

 

[fschifano]

Well, the direction here is to keep the topics completely analog. However there is another set of fora in which this question would be totally appropriate. Set your browser to hybridphoto.com. Lots of folks there doing exactly what you're doing, so you'll probably get a good answer.

But what the heck, I'll take a shot at it anyway. What you could be seeing are artifacts of the scanning process and not really film grain at all. Without having seen the negatives, there's no way I can tell. It could also be poor quality control on the part of the lab too. It's hard to tell. Tri-X is grainy, but not terribly so.

 

[wblynch]

It looks like reticulation. Check this link: http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Create-reticulation-when-film-processing-4639

Did you maintain temperature control? If your film gets shocked between steps you can get a look like this.

You didn't say what times you used or the temperatures and how you fixed the film.

Stick around though, there's great information being shared here.

 

[videocrew]

I have to admit, you're probably right on the reticulation. I don't think I did a great job of maintaining temperature control, how does one do this when you obviously need a ton of water to wash film? I can fix the problem with as far as the stop bath by using a stop solution instead of just water I guess.

 

[wblynch]

Most b/w development is done at 20*C/68*F (called room temperature). Get a thermometer to make sure your chems are at the right temperature and use wash water as close as you can get it.

I've only developed a half dozen rolls so far myself and have had happy results. I use distilled water to mix my chems but tap water for washing and fix. The information I've read on APUG and other sites has been invaluable.

I have used Arista stop bath and water only bath. Both worked for me.

I use the "Ilford method" of washing as I understand it... Fill the tank and invert 5 times, pour out and refill again this time inverting 10 times. I repeat and increase by 5 inversions till I get to 30. It doesn't take much water or time and it seems to work great for me. I turn off the water between fills.

Read the massive development chart for times and temperature for your film and developer.

 

[fschifano]

Actually you don't really need all that much water to do the final wash. A gallon or so will do the trick if you use Ilford's washing technique. You'll find a description of it in this document.

 

[nickandre]

Digitally generated grain?

 

[2F/2F]

It is from the low-quality scan, and possibly from sharpening, if that was done either by you or the lab. Look at your film under a magnifier and you will see that it is nowhere near this bad. It looks like a classic low-rez drugstore scan. It does not look like reticulation at all, not to mention that you literally have to TRY really really hard to get any modern emulsion reticulated (as in going from HOT water into FREEZING water), and even then you might not be able to do so.

OTOH, If you want a reticulated emulsion, I can say nothing but good about Efke/Adox 25/50/100 films!

 

[hrst]

I would vote a scanning problem. Some microreticulation is also possible but when "digital" and "pro lab" are involved together, the probability for a problem is far higher than a probability for any mistake in your darkroom, even if you are a first-timer messing up with temperatures .

 

[Athiril]

How to keep temperature consistent? Process at room temp, whatever temp comes out of the tap, measure and adjust times (if needed) accordingly.

 

[Bob-D659]

That doesn't work too well here, the tap water is 6.9-7 C this morning.

 

[cdowell]

I'd say it's a sharpening problem. The base grain look OK to me. If the subject were sharp and the same grain was distinguishing that, I wouldn't find it objectionable.

A lot of Brownie negatives have this look when scanned. Print them out at 3.5 inches as originally intended and they look fine. I don't know anything about Holgas, but maybe it's the same.

Good luck!

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Get everything to the same temp by putting it in a water bath.

When all done, use the Ilford wash sequence. I modify it a little by using 6 oz in an eight oz tank so I get pleanty of movement. 4 cycles of ten inversions each. Each cycle 45 sec. If you want to pull film up and down, that works too, but is a pain.

 

[videocrew]

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. I just got back another roll (Superia 800) from the same lab, color this time, developed by them and shot on my N80. As you can see, still super-grainy. I wonder if something is off with their machine... even Walgreens does better than this:

Maybe it's worth a chat with the lab tech there, see if she can figure it out.

I will definitely make a strong effort to watch my development temperatures too. Thanks for all the tips on that.

 

[wblynch]

Superia 800 is going to be grainy by nature

 

[2F/2F]

Again: crummy scans. What kind of "pro" lab is this, exactly? The scans look exactly like CVS (i.e. Noritsu) scans.

 

[videocrew]

They're the local pro photo store's in-house lab. I think the machine is a Noritsu though. Are those not the best? Should I look for Fuji Frontiers (Wolf (Ritz) Camera near me has one) or just bite the bullet and buy a flatbed Epson? Can't justify a Nikon 9000 anytime remotely soon.

 

[2F/2F]

You should do neither, and set up a real darkroom.

 

[Worker 11811]

I agree with the above. Crummy scans. I think that, sometimes, the "smart" features they build into those machines which try to improve your image actually degrade it instead. I have always believed that there is no such thing as an automatic "smart" machine which can replace an intelligent human operator. Machines can certainly ASSIST the human operator in doing his job better, faster and with less expense but they can never replace a human.

In other words, make sure there is a human monitoring the scanning process at your lab who is assuring the quality the machine outputs and that they are not just putting the film into the machine and hitting the "Start" button. Or, better yet, get your own scanner and do the job yourself... or BETTER STILL, learn to print photos in your own darkroom.

In reference to controlling your temperature while developing...
I have a clean, unused cat box that I put in the sink while I develop. I turn the water on to a trickle and regulate the temperature as well as I can. The water runs into the cat box and, when it is full, spills out and goes down the drain. When I need water to mix chemicals or to wash/rinse film with I dip water out of the box. If the incoming water temperature varies, the water already in the box will compensate for any change. I keep a submersible thermometer floating in the water at all times just to make sure the temperature stays steady. You can also put your containers of your developing chemicals in the water bath and let them sit there for a while so they are at the right temperature before you use them.

 

[videocrew]

I wish I had more than a 700 sqft apartment to do darkroom work, believe me. Even if I could rent one or something I'd do that rather than (or in addition to) scanning.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I wish I had more than a 700 sqft apartment to do darkroom work.

Small apartments used to be the norm for home darkrooms when I was young.

There were enlargers that fit into the average kitchen drawer or folded up into a suitcase. Trays and tongs fit under the bed. A few bottles of chemistry, a graduate or two in a cardboard box and some black-out curtains for the kitchen or bathroom and you are all set

 

[dancqu]

Less than Half a Gallon

Actually you don't really need all that much water to do
the final wash. A gallon or so will do the trick if you use
Ilford's washing technique.

A 120 roll, 1 pint per rinse, 3 rinses. I use the Iford method
in a leisurely way allowing some still time. After I follow
with a Photo Flo rinse.

All chemistry and wash water are at room. A jug holds the
wash and rinse water. If needed the developer's temperature
is tweaked. Dan

 

[fschifano]

Yeah, I know. I'm usually running multiple rolls at once, so I'm using a bigger bucket to wash them all at the same time. It works out to be about the same amount of water per roll.

 

[wotalegend]

That doesn't work too well here, the tap water is 6.9-7 C this morning.

Heh heh. Just developed a film this morning, and the cold tap water is coming out at 21 C. Sorry, just had to throw that one in. Summer makes it a whole lot easier.

 

[CBG]

I temper wash water for film in a couple of big dish washing tubs. I just stockpile room temperature water in two Rubbermaid tubs then fill and dump it into developing tanks to wash. By doing it ahead of time the process goes very smooth.