First Developing Disaster - Blue/Green blobs on negatives

Hey all, so I've been developing my own color negative film at home for a few months (using many of the guides from this forum, so thanks!) and I've had my first really bizarre, incomprehensible failure that I'm hoping someone can provide some insight into so I can avoid it in the future.

I have a bunch of 120 that I'm trying to get through from a recent trip, and I was attempting to develop two rolls (1 x portra 400 and 1 x ektar 100) on a single paterson reel. I had a really hard time getting them on, and I think the film got a bit bent and may have overlapped and touched in some places during development, but the images otherwise came out ok (they're still drying, so some weirdness may crop up when I scan, but they look relatively normal). The real problem arose when I tried to do my third roll of the night. I gave up on the two rolls per reel idea and loaded a roll of Cinestill 800 120 on my other reel (note that I did not re-use the reel from the first attempt). Everything seemed to go smoothly, but when I pulled the film out, there were giant blue/green blotches all over it, and most of the images were ruined. Looking back and my first two rolls, one of them also had a few blue-green blotches that I had chalked up to the films touching or overlapping during development.

My process for both runs was the same. I mixed up a liter of Flexicolor developer, used half for the first batch and half for the second. I use a sous-vide machine to heat up all my chemicals to 100F, and I stick a thermometer in the developer so I know when it's ready. I do two one-minute pre-soaks, then developer for 3:15, stop bath for maybe 30 secs, then rinse the tank our 4-5 times. I bleach for 6:30, rinse for 3:15, fix for 6:30, rinse for 3:15, final rinse for 1:15 and soak in photo-flo for a minute.

The only thing I really changed this time around was I opened the tank after fixing to rinse before the final rinse.

Here are a few images of the Cinestill roll:




Here's a shot of the two rolls I did together. Note the similar greenish stain on the roll on the right.



Any clues as to what went wrong would be much appreciated! I'm a little hesitant to keep developing until I know what went wrong.

Yeah, that is weird. Almost looks light struck??? You have good chemistry, otherwise there wouldn't be good images on the rolls. I've had blotches when film touches. I've never fiddled with the Cinestill stuff. You split your chemistry so the first didn't effect the second batch? ?

If it was developer that was mixed weird or contaminated it should be a uniform stain or effect . My only guess is some kind of problem loading the film onto the reels, or a really weird light leak in the tank, or when you were loading the reels. Your all natural hemp oil shampoo may be stronger than you think

Sometimes you never figure out exactly what is going on. I would start with fresh developer, opening the tank after fixer is fine. I use stop bath for color printing RA-4 but you shouldn't need for C-41.
I'm assuming you are using Kodak Flexicolor Developer, bleach, fixer and final rinse. That's as good as it gets chemistry wise.
Yeah, I can load 2 rolls of 120 onto a Jobo reel but it's a royal pain, even with my IR goggles. I've done it with Paterson in the past ,but I trimmed the film ends and taped the two films together ,still a pain.

mshchem said:

Yeah, that is weird. Almost looks light struck??? You have good chemistry, otherwise there wouldn't be good images on the rolls. I've had blotches when film touches. I've never fiddled with the Cinestill stuff. You split your chemistry so the first didn't effect the second batch? ?

If it was developer that was mixed weird or contaminated it should be a uniform stain or effect . My only guess is some kind of problem loading the film onto the reels, or a really weird light leak in the tank, or when you were loading the reels. Your all natural hemp oil shampoo may be stronger than you think

Sometimes you never figure out exactly what is going on. I would start with fresh developer, opening the tank after fixer is fine. I use stop bath for color printing RA-4 but you shouldn't need for C-41.
I'm assuming you are using Kodak Flexicolor Developer, bleach, fixer and final rinse. That's as good as it gets chemistry wise.
Yeah, I can load 2 rolls of 120 onto a Jobo reel but it's a royal pain, even with my IR goggles. I've done it with Paterson in the past ,but I trimmed the film ends and taped the two films together ,still a pain.

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Hrm, it's entirely possible that I had some sort of accidental exposure and didn't notice, which would be sort of a relief. I hate losing the shots but at least it would be unrelated to my development procedure. I literally just did 3 rolls yesterday, including another roll of the Cinestill (in 35mm) and they came out fine.

I read somewhere that the stop bath helps extend the life of the bleach (maintaining the ph) by neutralizing the alkaline developer, and I had an acetic acid based stop on hand, so I figured I'd use it. Do you think it could cause problems, or it just not necessary?

Thanks for the help!

pwadoc said:

Hrm, it's entirely possible that I had some sort of accidental exposure and didn't notice, which would be sort of a relief. I hate losing the shots but at least it would be unrelated to my development procedure. I literally just did 3 rolls yesterday, including another roll of the Cinestill (in 35mm) and they came out fine.

I read somewhere that the stop bath helps extend the life of the bleach (maintaining the ph) by neutralizing the alkaline developer, and I had an acetic acid based stop on hand, so I figured I'd use it. Do you think it could cause problems, or it just not necessary?

Thanks for the help!

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The stop bath is fine. Shouldn't have caused any problems. In C41 minilab machines film goes directly into the bleach from developer, not even a rinse. Then fixer, then three countercurrent stabilizer baths. No wash at all. This is the C-41 RA process takes about 7 minutes total.
You can avoid stabilizer all together with washing, but you really do need the Kodak Flexicolor final rinse, it's fancy photo-flo that contains a biocide to keep the wee beasties from munching on the gelatin on your processed film. Not sure what bleach you are using but this stuff is what minilabs use. It works fine in small tanks and lasts forever, cuts the bleach time to 1 minute
https://www.uniquephoto.com/product...film-8255549/_/searchString/flexicolor bleach
If you are doing by the book it requires a starter, like the LU Flexicolor Developer. (Not the same starter) Unique photo is great because they break up cases so you don't need to buy 20 gallons at a time. For 125 bucks Unique will sell you enough Kodak C41 Flexicolor chemistry to develop a boat load of film, if you replenish stuff goes a very long way. The bleach is the only expensive part and it lasts forever. Developer is cheaper than black and white developer.

mshchem said:

The stop bath is fine. Shouldn't have caused any problems. In C41 minilab machines film goes directly into the bleach from developer, not even a rinse. Then fixer, then three countercurrent stabilizer baths. No wash at all. This is the C-41 RA process takes about 7 minutes total.
You can avoid stabilizer all together with washing, but you really do need the Kodak Flexicolor final rinse, it's fancy photo-flo that contains a biocide to keep the wee beasties from munching on the gelatin on your processed film. Not sure what bleach you are using but this stuff is what minilabs use. It works fine in small tanks and lasts forever, cuts the bleach time to 1 minute
https://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-flexicolor-ra-c-41ra-bleach-replenisher-nr-for-color-negative-film-8255549/_/searchString/flexicolor bleach
If you are doing by the book it requires a starter, like the LU Flexicolor Developer. (Not the same starter) Unique photo is great because they break up cases so you don't need to buy 20 gallons at a time. For 125 bucks Unique will sell you enough Kodak C41 Flexicolor chemistry to develop a boat load of film, if you replenish stuff goes a very long way. The bleach is the only expensive part and it lasts forever. Developer is cheaper than black and white developer.

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Yep, that's exactly the chemistry I use! Currently doing everything in a Paterson hand tank until I get enough room to set up my Jobo CPP2.

mshchem said:

you really do need the Kodak Flexicolor final rinse, it's fancy photo-flo that contains a biocide to keep the wee beasties from munching on the gelatin on your processed film.

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Why isn't it required for B&W film?

devb said:

Why isn't it required for B&W film?

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Because developed normal (non-chromogenic) black and white negative film is made up of silver in gelatin, and silver is itself an excellent bactericide.
Chromogenic black and white film, colour negative film and transparency film has all the silver removed from it as part of the processing sequence.

looks like a light leak, not a development issue. the blobs would be more uniform if that was the case.

devb said:

Why isn't it required for B&W film?

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Yeah, what Matt said. Silver is been used as an antimicrobial for decades. There is a proprietary stainless steel treatment called Agion which is sold as a way to prevent mold and odors in air handling systems etc. Silver nitrate solution has been used as eyedrops for newborn babies to prevent any bacterial infections from the birth "process"
Even silver isn't enough if film and paper get damp.

eatfrog said:

looks like a light leak, not a development issue. the blobs would be more uniform if that was the case.

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Yup, I think so too. The green cast suggests that it was warm light, eg tungsten. Was a changing bag used to load the film into reels?

It might be a faulty film. Not very likely, but possible. Something could have gone wrong when they (p)removed the Remjet in the Cinestill workshop. You could write to them and ask if they've seen that before.

I haven't seen such a fault myself, however. I participated in their indigogo campaign and received beta rolls of the 500T and ordered some more of the 50D. The few beta rolls I used so far were ok.

Kind of a coincidence, more than one faulty film of entirely different suppliers and types, with the same kind of fault, with the only commonality being that they were processed by the same person.

koraks said:

Kind of a coincidence, more than one faulty film of entirely different suppliers and types, with the same kind of fault, with the only commonality being that they were processed by the same person.

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Hmm, the way I read it is that only the Cinestill is affected, or at least unexplained.

lantau said:

Hmm, the way I read it is that only the Cinestill is affected, or at least unexplained.

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Nah, one of the c41 rolls also is affected, see the photo. Looks to be the same problem, but just not as bad.