First developer time for Fuji E6

[warrennn]

I am getting ready to develop some Velvia using the Kodak 6 bath kit and my temp. controlled water bath at 38C. The Kodak instructions give a range of from 6 to 7 minutes for the first developer (this is from just after the tank is filled until just before it is emptied, I assume). Can someone recommend a time for the normal development of Velvia at 38C? Thanks.

Warren Nagourney

 

[Tom Taylor]

Try 6'20" and let us know what you get?

 

[warrennn]

Is there an objective way to determine whether I am doing things right? Will there be an obvious color problem which jumps out at one or are the errors more subtle, requiring some sensitometric experiments to evaluate? Thanks.

wn

 

[andrewkirkby]

Is there an objective way to determine whether I am doing things right? Will there be an obvious color problem which jumps out at one or are the errors more subtle, requiring some sensitometric experiments to evaluate? Thanks.

wn

In short, you could run a control strip in your process and then measure it with a densitometer.

Trial and error if you do not have the above. Get a process, write it down and stick to it.

 

[wibing]

I usually use 6:30 which seems to work fine.

 

[ZorkiKat]

I processed about 13 rolls of Fujichrome Velvia 100 over the past weekend. Used "real" (as opposed to the make-shift standbys I experimented with earlier) Kodak E6 5-litre kits. 6 minutes will make for dense Velvia transparencies - appearance is denser than what you'd expect to be good for projector or viewing through light boxes. For non-Velvia chromes like Sensia or Provia, 6 minutes gave lesser densities. Using 6 minutes, 30-45 seconds first developer time gave less densities for Velvia.

Some references say Fujichromes benefit from slightly longer FD times, compared with chromes from other makers.

 

[Rudeofus]

Always realize that it takes 2 extra minutes of FD time to push your film 1 stop. This means the difference between 6 and 7 minutes may not mean more than a 1/2 stop difference, if you stick with 6:30, I don't see what can possibly go wrong. I do hand development in Jobo tanks, so my dev times are highly imprecise (pouring takes over 10 seconds), yet I have never had any visible color casts.

 

[domaz]

I always do 7:00- with home development there are a lot of things to like pouring you have to take into account which adds up to more development time.

 

[srs5694]

I've settled on 6:45 for Fuji Velvia 50 in the Kodak E-6 kit. Of course, this could translate into 7:00 or 6:30 or something for you, since there are issues such as the precise nature of the timing (I start the timer just as I begin to pour in, and aim to stop just as I'm about to start the next step), temperature differences using my vs. your thermometer, etc.

I also agree with ZorkiKat that most other slide films require a little less time in the first developer; Fuji films, and especially Velvia, come out a bit dark using times that look good for others.

 

[warrennn]

Thanks, everyone, for the responses! It seems that there are a variety of approaches. One thing that I didn't quite appreciate is that increased times give less dense slides - I guess this is due to the fact that they are positives. It sounds like 6:30 is about the ideal time.

@Rudeofus - that is an excellent metric: 2 minutes corresponds to one stop. So, errors of 20 seconds or so are well within the latitude (1 stop) of the film and shouldn't be very noticeable.

With B&W, I start the timer as soon as I finish pouring in the developer and start pouring out at the alarm. The Kodak data sheet says that it includes 20 seconds for pouring out the solutions; this is approximately what it takes in my stainless steel tank.

wn

 

[nick mulder]

For Fuji films I do the recommended time for Tetanal (whatever that is) but 7mins for the Kodak 5 bath...

I'm not that colour critical, just have found those give me the exposure I was expecting

 

[warrennn]

Slightly off topic, but I saw a UK site which claims that the Kodak 6 solution E6 kit is being discontinued. Does anyone else have any information about this?

wn

 

[warrennn]

First roll of E6 developed successfully

Last night I developed my first roll of Velvia 50 in 120 format. Aside from some creases due to a slight problem in loading the stainless steel reel (a not too common problem), the density and color seem perfect (for RVP50, which emphasizes the colors). A few exposures were a little dark - this I attribute to operator error and possibly the fact that the film is 2 years out of date.

I used my homemade temperature controlled bath (discussed in another thread) and I set the temp. to 39.5 C - this seems to compensate for a slight drop in temperature in the glass beaker as well as another drop during the first development, with the tank taken out of the bath for agitation, etc. I used 6'30" first development time (from the completion of the tank filling to just before emptying the tank). The whole process took several hours - allowing the bath to temperature stabilize, mixing the chems and the actual processing. I am trying to reduce this time by simplifying some of the operations.

Cheers,

Warren Nagourney

ps. I did notice a tendency for color shift in some dark areas but attribute this to reciprocity failure - there was a blue shift at 1/8 second. At the more usual shutter speeds the colors seem accurate.

 

[brucemuir]

I went a bit over 7 minutes (pour/empty time) for some 2007 provia and the chromes were thin. Kodak Single Use kit.

I went 6 minutes with some 2003 Ekta chrome VS. Chromes were a bit dense.

Now to figure out how to tune this.
Was it my metering?
Was it my 'blad shutter? Doubt it but certainly possible
Was it my temperature drift? Started at around 104f and it was 100 at the end of the 1st developer so I think I need to adjust start temp a bit lower.

Luckily I have a decent stock of expired E6 films to play with so I can find my sweet spot for both fuji and kodak E6.

I was blown away by the colors on the Ekta/VS. They were dense and perhaps under exposed a bit but wow.

I bet I will get to around 6.30 for both Fuji and Kodak for my process.

 

[hrst]

If you find the optimal FD time using expired film, that time will of course apply only to the expired film in question.

Expired film is quite different than fresh and is usually best overexposed and pulled a stop or so. The usual problem with expired slide film is weak (usually magenta) Dmax that is caused at least partially by fog. Pull processing help against fog and you get better maximum density and usually less magenta shift in shadows. This is because less fog silver is developed, and thus in CD more dye is formed. 5 minutes in FD seems to be usually a good starting point for expired film. This of course needs to be compensated by overexposing one stop. By expired, I mean something like 5 - 10 years out of date film stored at room temperature. Different films behave differently when they expire so your results apply only to that specific batch of that one film that is stored similarly.

I would suggest to go with 6'30 with fresh film. Measure FD temperature before starting. 104 F, or even 102F as an average, is definitely too much. It's not difficult to keep it to +/- 0.5 F.

 

[brucemuir]

Thanks for those observations hrst.

Yea, I realize it's not optimal but I have the stuff and it's been frozen since purchase. It seems to have lost little speed and I'm sure there is some shift so I purposely shot frames with a white & grey card under varying daylight situations. I cant notice any shift by eye but I have no way to measure this for sure. I even shot some using UV corrected and uncorrected flash tubes just to see if I could tell.

This is my first foray with the Kodak E6 kit so I figure any experience I gain I can use.

I'll try your suggestions regarding the overexpose/pulling because I also have a cache of EPP 100 from 1999 that has definitely shifted to magenta. I got it because it cross processes well but it would be a good experiment to see if I can lessen that issue.

Thanks again. I was hoping to spark dialog.

 

[warrennn]

Resolution loss

One other thing I noticed, which may be partially due to the expired film. I took a photo of the NASA resolution test chart, after carefully focusing my 250 H'blad lens. A week earlier I did this using Tmax 100 film and the lens+film resolution was about 70 lpm. The resolution results using the expired (by 2 years) RVP50 was about 45 lpm. This is a big change. I would expect the color film to be slightly less sharp, but I thought that RVP resolves about 100 lpm and should have given better results. (Don't the errors from the lens and film add quadratically?) Could this be due to the expired film?

Cheers,

Warren N

 

[brucemuir]

Wow Warren.
That is indeed interesting.

I'd certainly be interested in what folks think but you'd probably need more test frames to be make any informed conclusions.

I've heard PE mention incomplete bleach step can cause loss in sharpness but I have no idea how film age affects it.

Can you give some more details on the film stock.
How outdated, storage conditions if know?

 

[warrennn]

Hi Bruce,

The film had an expiration date sometime in 2008 (not sure of the month as I have disposed of the wrapping). It was stored at room temperature since I purchased it about 3 years ago.

I agree that I need some more data. I plan to take some more pics next week when I receive some graduated cylinders so that I can measure the E6 chems more accurately.

I'll let you know what the results are.

wn

 

[shootpositive]

Last Velvia 100F roll I did myself was too dense. I would suggest 7 minutes with fresh chemicals. I usually like things on the overexposed side, especially velvia which is intense enough already