First B&W film development - question about chems, mixing and storage

I have never developed a negative before.

And so, evidently, I have a few (many) questions. I know this has been "covered" many times, but it's the intricacies that still confuse me.

I bought the following chemicals, as they are available on a regular basis. They are all 500ml liquid bottles;

1. AGFA Rodinal
2. Ilford Fixer
3. Ilford Ilfostop Stop Bath
4. Kodak Photo Flow

I know that the Rodinal is a "one shot" solution, typically diluted 1+50. However, I'm not sure how much I need to mix. I have the Patterson System 4 tank, and would like to develop 2 negative films at once. How much solution should I be mixing (would like to know for one and two negatives).

As for the stop bath and fixer, it tells me the dilution ration. However, the Ilfostop, for example, says to mix 1+19 for 10L. Do I mix 10L and keep the solution? How long does this solution keep?

Same goes for the Photo Flow. Dilution is 1+200. Do I just make enough for the one session? If so, what is the proper amount for a Patterson tank?

I guess I would like to know how much of these solutions to make, and whether I make just enough for the session, or I make a large batch and keep it.

Looking at the fixer, it appears I bought the wrong kind (paper fixer). I'll look to see what they have.

Thanks for any information, I'll be developing in a few days.

J

First, if your tank does 2 135 reels or 1 120 reel (sorry, not familiar with yours) then the capacity is 250mL. As to the 1:19 ratio, that would 12.5mL:237.5mL. For Photo Flo I always fill the water a final time after the rinse and add a couple of drops of PhotoFlo and then recap, invert a couple of times and let sit for one minute.

Unless you plan on some high volume processing, there's seldom a need to keep more than a litre on hand of anything. Personally, I mix per session.

One site I found very helpful when starting was this: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=16

You might want to read the film developing info under "Getting started".

HalifaxJ said:

However, I'm not sure how much I need to mix. I have the Patterson System 4 tank, and would like to develop 2 negative films at once. How much solution should I be mixing (would like to know for one and two negatives).

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The Paterson tank should have the required volumes marked under the base - I think it is 290ml per roll. If for any reason you develop only one roll, put an empty reel on the top so that the reel with the film does not accidentally slide up the central column (which would lead to uneven development due to not getting covered properly by the solution).

Looking at the fixer, it appears I bought the wrong kind (paper fixer). I'll look to see what they have.

Click to expand...

The concentrate is for both paper and film fixing. The dilution differs between the two. You can get more information about he fixer fro the "Products" link on IlfordPhoto's website. The link for the factsheet about the fixer is this: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/download.asp?n=48&f=2006130218312091.pdf

Hi J:

I'm assuming here that you are working with 35mm film.

If you look at the bottom of your tank, it should indicate how much chemistry you will need to use in order to cover the film reels properly. IIRC it is about 375 ml for one 35mm reel and 650 ml for two.

Those numbers are minimums - I would tend to use 400 ml for 1 reel and 675 to 700 ml for two.

Using 400 ml as an example:

1) for the Rodinal, to achieve a 1 + 50 dilution ratio you would want to add 8 ml of Rodinal concentrate to enough water to bring the total volume to 408 ml (but 400 ml would work just as well);
2) for the stop bath, to achieve a 1 + 19 dilution ratio you would want to add 20 ml of Ilfostop concentrate to enough water to bring the total volume to 400 ml;
3) for the fixer, you can use it for either paper or film. For paper the dilution ratio is 1 + 9 but for film you use 1 + 4. To achieve a 1 + 9 dilution ratio you would want to add 40 ml of Rapid Fixer concentrate to enough water to bring the total volume to 400 ml;
4) for the Photoflo, it is a good idea to use it in another container, and with the film off the reels. If your other container also takes 400 ml (as an example), to achieve a 1:200 dilution you need to add 2 ml of Photoflo concentrate to 400 ml of water.

For the developer, you most definitely should mix just enough to use in the current session.

For stop bath, you can mix larger quantities and then re-use the mixed chemicals until they are exhausted, but most people don't.

For fixer, many people mix up a minimum quantity and then discard it after use but many others mix up a larger volume and then re-use it it until it is exhausted. If you decide to do that, I'd suggest mixing a litre at a time. You should be safe re-using that 1 litre of working solution enough times to develop about 10 rolls before you discard it. If you can you should try to find a disposal resource for discarding used fixer, because the silver in used fixer is somewhat harsh on the environment.

The reason that I suggest using film taken off the reels and putting it in a separate container of Photoflo is that Photoflo is similar to detergent, and it can gum up reels and tanks if it isn't scrubbed away carefully.

Hope this helps - and have fun!

I would suggest you go one roll at a time if you never did it before. That way, if you miss something in the instructions, or have any other problem, you won't scrap both rolls. Learning right is more important the doing fast.

Plus, if everything works perfect, you have another roll to do to make sure the first perfect roll wasn't just a lucky accident. Perfect practice makes perfect.

Good Luck

put the empty reels in the tank and pour in enough water to cover the reels plus at least 1/8".

then pour the water into a measured beaker and you will know how much fluid you will need for each step.

do not count on the numbers printed on the bottom of the tank or you won't get complete coverage.

Most important --- have fun !!

wblynch said:

put the empty reels in the tank and pour in enough water to cover the reels plus at least 1/8".

then pour the water into a measured beaker and you will know how much fluid you will need for each step.

do not count on the numbers printed on the bottom of the tank or you won't get complete coverage.

Most important --- have fun !!

Click to expand...

This is a good suggestion, but after you do this, be sure to dry the reels thoroughly.

Damp plastic reels are hard to load - film sticks to them.

As expected, here is the best place to learn, i came here to learn and now i do develop all my B&W films with no fear, really great place here to learn about film.

Good luck in your film development, and let's see your results after though!!!

Thanks for all the help!

I'm reading some articles on B&W development, all seems a bit clearer now. Read the articles on the Illford site, which were also helpful.

Here's what I did; I bought a large "tray", which is essentially a storage container. I'll use this as my temperature bath, but also to store away equipment when not in use. I have 4 bottles now labeled, which will hold the mixed solutions. Water will go in the tray as well as the chem bottles, until they all reach temp. Proceed as normal from there following the times and agitation schedules for the various chemicals. I have negative clips for drying and a metal line in my bathroom. Still not sure how to rinse/wash the film - would rather keep it simple, and efficient.

At this point, my only concern is Rodinal. Wow - is that ever a hottly debated developer! I'm using HP5+, which might turn out a bit grainy. The only other option locally is D76 powder and TMAX developers.

J

When learning, it's best to stick to one developer and one, or at most two, films. If you try switching films and/or developers, it will be difficult to ascertain the causes of subtle or not-so-subtle changes in the results. Therefore, I recommend you go ahead and use the Rodinal, since you've already got it. The alternative would be to shelve the Rodinal (it keeps well, so you could still use it in a year or two) and buy D-76 or T-Max developer and use that exclusively for your first twenty rolls or so.

Also, I notice you didn't mention hypo clear. This substance is used after the fixer to speed removal of fixer from the negatives, thus reducing wash times. Without hypo clear, you'll have to wash your negatives for much longer (on the order of half an hour), but with it, your wash times will come down to more like five minutes. Details depend on the fixer you use, though, so consult the fixer's directions for precise times.

srs5694 said:

Also, I notice you didn't mention hypo clear. This substance is used after the fixer to speed removal of fixer from the negatives, thus reducing wash times. Without hypo clear, you'll have to wash your negatives for much longer (on the order of half an hour), but with it, your wash times will come down to more like five minutes. Details depend on the fixer you use, though, so consult the fixer's directions for precise times.

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Both fixers made by Ilford ("Hypam Fixer" and "Ilford Rapid Fixer") are rapid fixers - they contain ammonium thiosulphate, not hypo (sodium thiosulphate). They do not need hypo clearing agents. The wash times are already on the order of ~5 minutes if you do no use a hardener. And since you are just starting on developing film, I doubt you are going to experiment with a film for which a hardener is recommened - I doubt any film currently manufactured by Kodak/Ilford/Fuji needs a hardener.

Given that I'll be using HP5+ for 90% of my shooting along with Rodinal for development, what dilution would give me less grain? Should I stick with the 1:50?

J