First Analog Camera Thread

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 4, 2014

Hi selenolatry or whatever-is-your-name

If you want to learn something, the best way is to start with the basics: get a book on basic photography to start.
Look for a 80s or 90s book.

Nikon still manufactures an affordable manual camera, the Fm10 I believe, under $300. FreeStyle carries it.

Ai, ai! Nikon only makes the F6.The FM10 is made under licence by Cosina.
I wished they made an FE3.

If you want to get a good 35mm SLR, look for the models despised by many around here. Often they are better than some would want meke you believe. See the Nikon EM/FG/FG-20 series or the Olympus OM10/20/30/40 series. They can be had cheaply and are lighter. Many are still on duty service even after 30 years. Mines are!

selenolatry · Nov 4, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
Hi selenolatry or whatever-is-your-name

If you want to learn something, the best way is to start with the basics: get a book on basic photography to start.
Look for a 80s or 90s book.

Ai, ai! Nikon only makes the F6.The FM10 is made under licence by Cosina.
I wished they made an FE3.

If you want to get a good 35mm SLR, look for the models despised by many around here. Often they are better than some would want meke you believe. See the Nikon EM/FG/FG-20 series or the Olympus OM10/20/30/40 series. They can be had cheaply and are lighter. Many are still on duty service even after 30 years. Mines are!

Well firstly, I know how to take pictures -- I do come from a couple years practicing with my DSLR. But in case you're willing to name a book I'd be delighted to read it in case I have missed things or could further learn.

I would love to venture about new cameras, and I agree that it is probably the best feeling to play around with a camera which is highly under-appreciated for no good reason. However, I may or may not have mentioned, but I am going on a trip in a few months and I'd like to be able to familiarize myself with a safe pick to get myself going before I go on this journey of sorts. I will have a look on the ones you've mentioned, though. Thanks.

trythis · Nov 4, 2014

Before worrying about repairing a manual vs electronic camera try pricing repairing any manual nikon vs buying several n80's or FG models. KEH has 12 n80's that work for under $20.
They have sticky rubber but they work.

The forum is not flooding with unrepairable cameras. They just don't fail that often.

selenolatry · Nov 4, 2014

trythis said:
Before worrying about repairing a manual vs electronic camera try pricing repairing any manual nikon vs buying several n80's or FG models. KEH has 12 n80's that work for under $20.
They have sticky rubber but they work.

The forum is not flooding with unrepairable cameras. They just don't fail that often.

how often do manual cameras break down, amongst the models i've cited as possibilities and how much are they to fix? i haven't any idea so far, only that electronics are unrepairable.

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 4, 2014

A $20 camera that breaks? Repair it? No... throw it away and buy another one.

trythis · Nov 4, 2014

It really depends on what is broken. In most cases if its something major that's worn out the cost to repair is going to be close to buying another one.
I don't know if for some reason there are magical parts bins for all the FM2's out there but I suspect we are all in the same boat when our camera bodies die: sell for parts and buy another one.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 4, 2014

selenolatry said:
Thank you for pointing me to the FM series, it is surprisingly cheap too!

I have three of them since the early 1970s,all took about 500k shots(catalog work) and all are still working perfectly.the only Nikon Iever had trouble with was an FE but I got it fixed and it's going strong again

trythis · Nov 4, 2014

What is you're budget btw?

Les Sarile · Nov 4, 2014

trythis said:
It really depends on what is broken. In most cases if its something major that's worn out the cost to repair is going to be close to buying another one.
I suspect we are all in the same boat when our camera bodies die: sell for parts and buy another one.

Instead of another older body of unknown condition, a good repair may be a better option.

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 4, 2014

No offense intended to anyone but I completely disagree with those who suggest buying the cheapest camera body and lenses. They were the cheapest then and are still the cheapest for good reason. Buy a decent body and lenses in good condition. Forget the Series-E lenses, OMG's, OM10's and EM's, etc. Very good older analog bodies/lenses are available on the cheap so there's no need to buy the "cheapest".

trythis · Nov 4, 2014

I happen to love the FG and N80 even if they are cheap, not advocating them on price alone. Spend your money on glass. You can see good glass in photos not bodies.

flavio81 · Nov 4, 2014

selenolatry said:
Secondly, for the FM2n I was stuck with the AI (or AI-S) lenses, and their prices were high, however I do already own a DSLR from which I could potentially use these lenses as well, which is a plus, surely.

The FE is very attractive for its price, but it goes back to the first question, and to the fact that these lenses will only serve me for this camera currently, and maybe that is counter productive?

Go for the FE!

Lenses are very important and should be a key decision factor. Pre-AI lenses can be considerably cheaper than AF, AI and AI-S lenses. And still of very high picture quality. All of those lenses (including pre-AI) can be mounted in many modern Nikon DSLRs and in all Canon EF DSLRs (by use of an adapter), by the way. The same is not true about Canon FD lenses. They are almost unusable in DSLRs except for some Micro Four Thirds camera bodies, but then those are not full frame bodies.

Anyways, back to ANALOG because this is Apug.

M Carter said:
Couple thoughts -

Nikon still manufactures an affordable manual camera, the Fm10 I believe, under $300. FreeStyle carries it.

The FM10 is a really cheaply made camera, a horrible thing to have on the hands once you have gotten used to properly built cameras.

M Carter said:
I shoot a lot of film with my 60's era Canon FTQL. That said, it's very hard to find one with accurate shutter speeds (though you can find them for $20 or so). Great big vintage'ey metal body, it's really a beauty and the metering is fine.

Any competent camera tech can clean, lube and adjust a FTQL so the speeds are just fine. Most FTb, FTQL, FM, FM2 cameras i've had in my hands had pretty OK shutter speeds.

M Carter said:
Series E lenses - you can often save money by buying an old Nikon body with a series-E lens (sometimes it's the cheapest way to get a 50!) The 50 is as good a 50 as most of the glass out there, not legendary but a good design.

Agree. Series E lenses are good, in particular the 75-150mm zoom.

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 4, 2014

trythis said:
I happen to love the FG and N80 even if they are cheap, not advocating them on price alone. Spend your money on glass. You can see good glass in photos not bodies.

That is a good approach. These models happen to be also something a F2 or a FM isn't: light.

The OP states he is going on a trip. If that means walking around for hours, you don't want to be burden with a heavy SLR.

I do come from a couple years practicing with my DSLR.

That's why you need a basic book. Digitography has nothing to do with Film.
The Camera Book, published in 1980 by the Artists House in the UK is a good book.
This one is also very good: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Focal...Focal-photoguides-By-Leonard-Ga-/331249140779

selenolatry · Nov 4, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
That is a good approach. These models happen to be also something a F2 or a FM isn't: light.

The OP states he is going on a trip. If that means walking around for hours, you don't want to be burden with a heavy SLR.

That's why you need a basic book. Digitography has nothing to do with Film.
The Camera Book, published in 1980 by the Artists House in the UK is a good book.
This one is also very good: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Focal...Focal-photoguides-By-Leonard-Ga-/331249140779

Thank you for the recs!

ciniframe · Nov 4, 2014

Forget all this Nikon and Canon chatter and just get an old, beat up, Praktica LTL.

Excuse me while I don my Nomex under garment.

You probably knew, didn't you, that there just had to be at least one smart aleck remark.

flavio81 · Nov 4, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
That is a good approach. These models happen to be also something a F2 or a FM isn't: light.

Note that the diference between a FM and the N80 you advocate as "lighter" than the FM is just 75 grams: 515g versus 590g.
Both cameras are really light. I'd say any camera under about 1100g is light enough for walking around for hours.
The Nikon F2 weights only 730g. That's relatively heavier but still pretty fine in absolute terms. And a hell of a camera.

flavio81 · Nov 4, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
No offense intended to anyone but I completely disagree with those who suggest buying the cheapest camera body and lenses. They were the cheapest then and are still the cheapest for good reason. Buy a decent body and lenses in good condition. Forget the Series-E lenses, OMG's, OM10's and EM's, etc. Very good older analog bodies/lenses are available on the cheap so there's no need to buy the "cheapest".

Note that Series E lenses are well performing.

But i agree with you. The best investment is a high-quality camera that will never break down and will retain its (high) value over time. That means an Olympus OM-1 is a much better investment than a OM-10. Or that a Rolleiflex is a better investment than a Lubitel 166, to put another example.

selenolatry · Nov 4, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
That is a good approach. These models happen to be also something a F2 or a FM isn't: light.

The OP states he is going on a trip. If that means walking around for hours, you don't want to be burden with a heavy SLR.

That's why you need a basic book. Digitography has nothing to do with Film.
The Camera Book, published in 1980 by the Artists House in the UK is a good book.
This one is also very good: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Focal...Focal-photoguides-By-Leonard-Ga-/331249140779

Again, thank you, but I can't find either of those online. Would you happen to have anything that I could find as pdf and so on at the same line of work? I guess it's kind of impossible to these short aimed books, but shipping to where I currently live is absurd, or maybe it's just my curiosity and anxiety to have this material kicking.

tkamiya · Nov 4, 2014

If you prefer little more modern, Nikon N80 is a good choice. (and cheap) It's one of the last bodies Nikon produced before going into Digital, so many examples of these are practically new. It will take all auto focus lenses available today.

John Koehrer · Nov 5, 2014

IMO Nikon FM2.
Something not mentioned is the shutter itself. The FM series all used a copal square shutter rather than horizontal travel cloth shutters. But! the original F's used a horizontal travel shutter.
Original prices between FM/FE Nikons and similar Canon Manual focus cameras were about the same $$$.
AI & AIS lenses are a bit easier to use on FM FE cameras. You would need to use stop down metering with non-AI's.
One reason the the premium for FM2's is reliability and non battery dependency. Extra $$ well spent.
Comparing size? Canon FT series were larger and heavier than the FM, FE's.

M Carter · Nov 5, 2014

flavio81 said:
Note that Series E lenses are well performing.

I'd still skip the Series-E 28! Love the 100, heard great things about the zoom and the 35. The 50's about the same 50 as many others, which is a nice lens.

jonasfj · Nov 6, 2014

Hi,

I own several Nikon and have enjoyed them all, but each have their pros and cons:

FE is cheap and the spotmeter works very well. However, difficult lightening conditions or when the light changes quickly can be challenging

F4 is amazing in many ways. Both the AF and the automatic exposure measurement work well. I'm sure that a modern D4 is way better for sports, but this camera is surprisingly competent. It also takes manual lenses. Can be a little bulky and bring spare AA batteries.

F100 is great, perhaps slightly better than the F4, but ut does not meter with manual focus lenses. Also bulky.

FA has grown to be my favourite. Up til now, the matrix metering has been able to handle more than 95% of my exposures. I love how my D700 can give a correct metering even while shooting into direct sunlight. I didn't expect that from the FA, but I think it is as good or at least not far from, which is surprising since it only has 5 matrices. Shooting in aperture priority is an absolute pleasure. Make sure you have a split focusing screen and get a couple of AI/AIS lenses. It is as light as an FE or FM.

I can strongly recommend the FA. I got mine, a black body in close to mint condition, for a little more than 100 euro.

For me shooting is most enjoyabe when I don't have to carry a lot of gear around. Therefore, I have limited myself to max 3 lenses. One mounted on the body and the other two in my pockets. I currently shoot with 28/2.8ais, 50/1.2ais and the 105/2.5ais. Those are interesting lenses, but maybe not the cheapest. On a budget you might as well get the 24/2.8, 50/1.8 and 85/2.

Good luck and have fun!

Jonas

mr rusty · Nov 6, 2014

Look, everyone recommends their favourite system/what they use. Remember, there is nothing but air between lens and film (yeah OK mirror, shutter - you know what I mean) so only the lens influences potential image quality. The camera provides metering, and not much else that actually affects the end result. Differences in cameras are therefore about ergonomics, reliability, "quality" (whatever that is - but you know it when you handle it).

Go out there with a Minolta x300 (cheap as chips) and a rokkor/MC/MD 50mm 1.7 and no-one will tell your pictures apart from any Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Canon. By all means choose something else - I happen to use Olympus, and like the fact that Zuiko glass is high quality and price is a little below Nikon, but would be just as happy with Pentax or Canon. Don't overlook some of the older auto-focus stuff. Things like Canon Rebels are also incredibly cheap (or even free if you just buy them for the lens that might come with them) and they take all the latest lenses. Don't let people persuade you it is worth spending huge amounts on fast lenses. Slower lenses are just as good image wise, much cheaper and with fast films who needs 1.4 or 1.2. One of my favourite lenses is a plain old 35-70 f4 Zuiko zoom. They go for about £20. Just a good "walk around" lens that does what it needs to. Of course, buying a high quality camera and a set of great lenses brings pride of ownership, but just don't kid yourself that image quality relates to equipment cost!

Moral - don't worry too much - the differences between systems is minimal. Image quality is going to be as much about film, where you get it processed, who prints or scans it, your technique - avoiding shake, getting good metering, understanding how different films react - particularly B&W where there are so many variables. And of course, the photog behind the lens!

Have fun!

PentaxBronica · Nov 9, 2014

Pentax P30t/P30n and the Pentax-A 50mm prime they came with.

Small, light, manual focus, choice of program, aperture priority or metered manual mode, standard threaded cable release socket and "B" setting on shutter speed dial. They're stupidly cheap as the collectors don't like them (the outer panels may be plastic, but the chassis is metal so there's no creaking or flexing). Takes any Pentax lens, can even use DA ones which cover full frame although you'll be stuck in program mode with them due to their lack of an aperture ring. K, M or A series primes are a perfect match, the former two have no "A" setting but you'll have Av or M mode.

Only downsides are the reliance on batteries (but a couple of spare LR44s hardly take up that much space) and the fact that you can't over-ride the DX coding on the film.

I paid £10 for a P30n with 50mm f2 a while ago, had to clean some grease out of the aperture mechanism of the lens but after that I just fitted new batteries, loaded a film and it worked perfectly. I strongly recommend them to anyone wanting to try film without spending huge amounts of money.

JimCee · Nov 9, 2014

selenolatry said:
Cheers. I bet you guys get a load of these, but I've been going about and finding my way through a lot of cheesy websites on why is Film better than digital and so on. I found a few models I'm interested in such as the Contax T2 and the Nikon F3, and now I am mostly wondering of glass for these.

Well, you might wish to start with a lens system like the one suggested by Nikon (source: "Beginner's Guide to the Single Lens Reflex Camera", 1980, Presented by Nikon Educational Services):

"The Basic 3-Lens System: 28mm, 50mm, 135mm
If you want to be prepared for the maximum number of photo opportunities
with the minimum number of lenses, this is an excellent choice. It also ranks
high in portability - ideal for travel!"

The brochure goes on to explain the advantages of each lens focal length. For a 3-lens combination, I'd say this was a good place to start. Several lens in these focal lengths were true Nikkor classics - Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AI-S, Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AI-S, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8S (Japanese version) and the 135mm f/2.8 AI-S lens are examples. Most of these lenses are available for modest costs and are perfect for any of the Nikon cameras that others have suggested (Nikon F3, Nikon FE, Nikon FM), in their various versions.

Personally, I like the Nikon F3 and I've owned one since I purchased it new in 1983. It still functions perfectly (LCD is bright, exposure metering is dead on). It's never been CLA'd or had the seals replaced. What more can I say?

Jim

First Analog Camera Thread

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