First Analog Camera Thread

Cheers. I bet you guys get a load of these, but I've been going about and finding my way through a lot of cheesy websites on why is Film better than digital and so on. I found a few models I'm interested in such as the Contax T2 and the Nikon F3, and now I am mostly wondering of glass for these.

I have found what I assume to be recent models for these lenses on Amazon but I am still trying to find other options, of course. I am looking for 35mm and 50mm specifically, and I would surely expect there to be older models of these lenses, where for example auto focus isn't necessary and I wouldn't want to be paying on something I will not use.

Could I get some advice? Or sent to maybe a generic page for this sort of information.

Sorry for sheeping such repetitive thread motif, which I'm sure there is everywhere.

selenolatry said:

Cheers. I bet you guys get a load of these, but I've been going about and finding my way through a lot of cheesy websites on why is Film better than digital and so on. I found a few models I'm interested in such as the Contax T2 and the Nikon F3, and now I am mostly wondering of glass for these.

I have found what I assume to be recent models for these lenses on Amazon but I am still trying to find other options, of course. I am looking for 35mm and 50mm specifically, and I would surely expect there to be older models of these lenses, where for example auto focus isn't necessary and I wouldn't want to be paying on something I will not use.

Could I get some advice? Or sent to maybe a generic page for this sort of information.

Sorry for sheeping such repetitive thread motif, which I'm sure there is everywhere.

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For the Nikon, get AI versions of the 35/2 Nikkor and the 50/2 Nikkor. Cheap and hard to beat for quality. As for the Contax, it isn't a real Contax but there's some nice (and not cheap) glass available. Best bang for the denarius would be the Nikon, but I'd go for an FM/FM2/FM2n. The F3 is full of electronic stuff that can no longer be serviced; the FM series is better, mechanical, and cheaper. If you go for Nikon, that is.

You can look up Canon FD system on KEH.

Jeff

Thank you for pointing me to the FM series, it is surprisingly cheap too!

I had excellent luck with FM2 bodies. I'd used several older bodies and some newer ones but the FM2 had the faster flash sync which I needed for syncro-sun and they never failed me.

Budget $100 or so for a CLA (clean, lubricate, adjust). This is pretty much mandatory on a 20+ year old camera.

The Nikon F3 can use non-AI and AI manual focus lenses. KEH sells used lenses with guarantees -> Dead Link Removed

selenolatry said:

Thank you for pointing me to the FM series, it is surprisingly cheap too!

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Here's a good source of information for Nikon stuff; http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/htmls/models/
It's a huge site, maybe go to the homepage and start from there. KEH is good todeal with, but don't ignore the classifieds here. The FM2n is the best of the FM series.
I'm a Nikon fan, I have a Nikon F outfit I used semi professionally until the very late 90s and just received an absolutely gorgeous (and recently serviced) Nikon F2A body for $100 - shipped.

Canon FD system

Jeff Kubach said:

You can look up Canon FD system on KEH. Jeff

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I second the suggestion to look at the Canon FD system. Within the last year I picked up two Canon FTb-N's, one from KEH and the other from Ebay. Prices are very reasonable ($25 for the last one from Ebay), both work fine and neither one needed CLA. The FD system has a large line of good lenses, most of which are also inexpensive these days. There is also a tremendous amount of good info on the web about these cameras/lenses.

dismalhiker said:

I second the suggestion to look at the Canon FD system. Within the last year I picked up two Canon FTb-N's, one from KEH and the other from Ebay. Prices are very reasonable ($25 for the last one from Ebay), both work fine and neither one needed CLA. The FD system has a large line of good lenses, most of which are also inexpensive these days. There is also a tremendous amount of good info on the web about these cameras/lenses.

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Yet.

Thank you all so much for all this information, and I do think I will go with the AI 50/2, 35/2 for the Nikon FM2n. The prices were excelent and shockingly cheaper than I thought I'd have to spend on my way over to Digital (which will just have to wait). I couldn't be more glad for this feedback. mir.com was also magical to see. Are there databases like this for film as well I should read up on?

selenolatry said:

Thank you all so much for all this information, and I do think I will go with the AI 50/2, 35/2 for the Nikon FM2n. The prices were excelent and shockingly cheaper than I thought I'd have to spend on my way over to Digital (which will just have to wait). I couldn't be more glad for this feedback. mir.com was also magical to see. Are there databases like this for film as well I should read up on?

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You're at perhaps the best - there's a stunning amount of info. here. Also some very helpful (and eccentric) people.
As for the 50 and 35 Nikkors, I have and have used for ~20 years the pre AI versions of both. The later (AI) versions have better coatings, but significantly I have no urge to 'upgrade".
Welcome and good luck!.
edit - If you want an absolutely gorgeous - and very reasonably priced portrait/short tele lens - get the pre AI (Sonnar) version of the 105/2.5 Nikkor. Legendary, and for good reason. 35/50/105 is a very nice outfit.

E. von Hoegh said:

You're at perhaps the best - there's a stunning amount of info. here. Also some very helpful (and eccentric) people.
As for the 50 and 35 Nikkors, I have and have used for ~20 years the pre AI versions of both. The later versions have better coatings, but significantly I have no urge to 'upgrade".
Welcome and good luck!.

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I have not much experience with analog metering. Do you use a handheld meter to make up for the AI, or does it not make that much of a difference? I'm always looking to bargain my way out of high prices

selenolatry said:

I have not much experience with analog metering. Do you use a handheld meter to make up for the AI, or does it not make that much of a difference? I'm always looking to bargain my way out of high prices

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AI means "Auto Indexing". It first appeared in the mid 1970s and was simply a more convenient way to tell the camera what aperture your lens was set at. "Pre AI' means a more primitive - but still very effective - system was used to couple the lens' aperture info. to the camera's meter; part of the lens mounting procedure in pre AI days was the "Nikon shuffle" where you rotated the aperture ring from max. to min. aperture and back to set the coupling mechanism. There's no need to use a handheld meter because most Nikon bodies of that era, if designed for AI lenses, worked in stopdown mode with pre-AI lenses. Beware though that some don't - and I don't recall which.
If you get an FM2n and AI lenses, this is of historical interest only.

IF you want to get cheaper and dont mind a nikon body that is electronic, I might suggest the FG. You should be able to find on in good shape for $50 or less. It has manual, aperture priority and full program. It is smaller, lacks exposure lock, depth of field preview and mirror lockup. Benefits: full TTL flash metering, program mode with manual focus lenses and weighs nothing.

Also another electronic model that I enjoy using is the FA which is bigger - adds depth of field preview.

If you are thinking about going digital <gasp!> later, you may want to consider getting AF-D lenses, or AutoFocus D lenses. They meter on all the manual bodies except nikkormats and F2/F1. Thos cameras require rabbit ears, which you can add it seems.

If you aren't afraid of autofocus, the N80 is an amazing camera for the less than $50 they cost. They dont have mirror lockup and cant meter with manual focus lenses.

Lots of people will scoff at using AF lenses on MF bodies because they don't feel like manual focus lenses, but they are completely functional on all the manual focus bodies and all but the cheapest (no autofocus) digital <gasp!> bodies.

I have an FE, and it is a nice camera for its simple aperture priority auto exposure but no TTL flash, but it can mount and stop down meter non AI lenses.

E. von Hoegh said:

AI means "Auto Indexing". It first appeared in the mid 1970s and was simply a more convenient way to tell the camera what aperture your lens was set at. "Pre AI' means a more primitive - but still very effective - system was used to couple the lens' aperture info. to the camera's meter; part of the lens mounting procedure in pre AI days was the "Nikon shuffle" where you rotated the aperture ring from max. to min. aperture and back to set the coupling mechanism. There's no need to use a handheld meter because most Nikon bodies of that era, if designed for AI lenses, worked in stopdown mode with pre-AI lenses. Beware though that some don't - and I don't recall which.
If you get an FM2n and AI lenses, this is of historical interest only.

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I was just reading up on this too. Apparently FM2n does not work with pre-AI lenses, is that right?

I suggest not getting an FG nor FA. I had the FA and the shutter broke. The cost to repair was way too much. I never used the auto function anyway. The only reason I bought it is for the faster flash sync speed and the FM2 was not yet released.

trythis said:

IF you want to get cheaper and dont mind a nikon body that is electronic, I might suggest the FG. You should be able to find on in good shape for $50 or less. It has manual, aperture priority and full program. It is smaller, lacks exposure lock, depth of field preview and mirror lockup. Benefits: full TTL flash metering, program mode with manual focus lenses and weighs nothing.

Also another electronic model that I enjoy using is the FA which is bigger - adds depth of field preview.

If you are thinking about going digital <gasp!> later, you may want to consider getting AF-D lenses, or AutoFocus D lenses. They meter on all the manual bodies except nikkormats and F2/F1. Thos cameras require rabbit ears, which you can add it seems.

If you aren't afraid of autofocus, the N80 is an amazing camera for the less than $50 they cost. They dont have mirror lockup and cant meter with manual focus lenses.

Lots of people will scoff at using AF lenses on MF bodies because they don't feel like manual focus lenses, but they are completely functional on all the manual focus bodies and all but the cheapest (no autofocus) digital <gasp!> bodies.

I have an FE, and it is a nice camera for its simple aperture priority auto exposure but no TTL flash.

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Fun to see a different opinion on this. I will look into the models you've cited but the electronic body bothers me a little on its durability and possible repairs, which I'm sure would be a bit iffy to get around to. My experience with AF lenses has been always with very flimsy slippery lenses which frightens me if I am to solely rely on this kind of interaction. I'm not however afraid of AF cameras, but since my current experience has been with the sort, a change would maybe be more positive (?).

For 50mm, a clean e-series lens is a steal.

I also like the 55mm f/2.8 micro because I'm not limited for how close I can get to things. It's overkill, though if you never get closer than 2ft to your subjects.

The 50mm 1.8 AF-D is really cheap and you can get one new. It's nice if you have plans for an AF Nikon body at some point. It's plastic, but the optics are fine.

I don't have any 35mm, but I would probably just get the AI-S version if I wanted one. I'd get the 28mm AI-S before I did that, though.

I have a 28mm e-series and it's OK, but nothing special. I think it has more flare than it should, but part of the problem is that I don't shoot wide angle as well as I should, and much of what I shoot with it has compositional problems.

-J.

The 55mm f/2.8 Micro-Nikkor is one of the best lenses ever made. I would avoid Series-E offerings unless ultimate quality is of little concern.

I'd suggest, as an alternative to the FM2, which is usually higher priced due to demand, to look for a Nikon FE or Nikon FE2.

The FE2 was one of the best 35mm SLRs i've ever used. Same for the FE which i have the pleasure to own. Don't be put off by the fact that they use batteries -- they require just two small SR44 batteries which last a lot (many months), and they are extremely reliable cameras.

Additionally, the FE (not the FE2) is able to mount pre-AI lenses, which is a big plus, in my opinion.

I also own the Nikon F3 but i can say the metering electronics are not too reliable. The meter died on my F3 and my friend's F3 also has electronic problems. Same for the Nikon FA. In my opinion Nikon got their electronic cameras reliable starting with the FE. On mechanical cameras the best, and by far, is the Nikon F. But the Nikkormat FT2 can be had for cheap, uses modern batteries, is reliable, and mounts all Nikon lenses.

As for the Canon FD system, don't overlook that system! Lenses are excellent (on par with equivalent Nikkors), and some of the cameras are very nice. I'd recommend any of the following:

- Canon F1 (obviously)
- Canon FT, FTb, TX, FX
- Canon EF (amazing camera)

Additionally, the Canon T70 is a very capable camera, although it is one of the ugliest cameras ever. The T90 was the most advanced FD camera, but prices are high for examples in good condition.

I'd say, get yourself a Canon FTb and be happy. Lenses i'd recommend for the FD system are:
- the 17mm f4 lens
- any of the 24mm lenses
- the 35mm f2.0 lens with concave front element
- the 55/1.2, 50/1.4 (all versions), and the plastic fantastic 50/1.8
- any of the 135mm or 100mm lenses

In any case, you can have a very cheap and useful kit with the 35/3.5 FD lens, a 50/1.8, and any of the 135mm.

On Nikon, best prices (best bargains) are with the pre-AI lenses; the classic Nikkor-S 50/1.4 is very good, for example. Nikkor lenses are consistently good save for very few exceptions.

As for the Minolta system, if you can get a XE camera then you'll be very happy. I'd say that's the high watermark of Minolta, save for the XK professional camera which is very rare. The SRT-101 is also easy to find and a good camera.

Stay away from the Pentax K1000, it is currently overpriced and overrated, because it doesn't bring anything special to justify it's price. Go for the Spotmatic instead, and screw-mount Takumars.

Olympus system is very nice, the OM-1 is a very nice camera. However, i have reasons to think most Olympus OM lenses are slightly lagging in optical performance due to the need for them to be as compact as possible. The opposite is true for the Zeiss Contarex lenses -- they made them as big as they needed to be; optical quality was consideration #1. For example i found the OM 55/1.2 a very poor performer while my FD 55/1.2 was fantastic (and significantly bigger and heavier). So you'll have to look for reviews before buying a particular OM lens.

Stay away from the Rollei SL35 and similars.

Contax RTS system -- if you can afford it, go for it!! But the best kept secret in 35mm SLRs must be the Yashica FR-1, which is related to the RTS.

E. von Hoegh said:

For the Nikon, get AI versions of the 35/2 Nikkor and the 50/2 Nikkor. Cheap and hard to beat for quality. As for the Contax, it isn't a real Contax but there's some nice (and not cheap) glass available. Best bang for the denarius would be the Nikon, but I'd go for an FM/FM2/FM2n. The F3 is full of electronic stuff that can no longer be serviced; the FM series is better, mechanical, and cheaper. If you go for Nikon, that is.

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I read that the AI-S version of the 35mm f2 is a much better version (even better than the AF).

Just so's you know the Contax T2 does not have an interchangeable lens.

Guys I straightened it down to the FTb, FM2n and the FE. The price was truly ridiculously low for FE, from making a cart for each in KEH by at least 200 dollars, it drove me to my first question as to whether I am paying for quality or for personal preferences? If the former, the FM2n should be the superior one over the FTb? KEH doesn't give many specs and as you guys may have tried both could I have some tips as to what do these offer me individually? I could only find that the FM2n has 1/4000 and bulb whereas the FTb model does not.

Secondly, for the FM2n I was stuck with the AI (or AI-S) lenses, and their prices were high, however I do already own a DSLR from which I could potentially use these lenses as well, which is a plus, surely.

The FE is very attractive for its price, but it goes back to the first question, and to the fact that these lenses will only serve me for this camera currently, and maybe that is counter productive? However I am willing to give that up as the price was ridiculously low, and it has been told to be very reliable in this thread so I highly consider it. (A question related to this and glass specifications, there seem to be two types for F mounts: O and H; could I get some clarification?)

Couple thoughts -

Nikon still manufactures an affordable manual camera, the Fm10 I believe, under $300. FreeStyle carries it.

Nikon is a great brand as the lens mount gives you decades of glass, Nikkors and aftermarket.

I shoot a lot of film with my 60's era Canon FTQL. That said, it's very hard to find one with accurate shutter speeds (though you can find them for $20 or so). Great big vintage'ey metal body, it's really a beauty and the metering is fine.

The Nikon FG is a great little body from the 70's, uses modern meter batteries and seems much more robust. No DOF preview but a pretty dynamite little film shooter.

Series E lenses - you can often save money by buying an old Nikon body with a series-E lens (sometimes it's the cheapest way to get a 50!) The 50 is as good a 50 as most of the glass out there, not legendary but a good design. The 28mm is soft, but the AIs (not AI) 28mm 2.8 is a legendary lens for under $300. The Series-E 100mm 2.8 is a fantastic deal for the sub-$100 it often goes for. The 105mm may trounce it, but for 4 or 5 times the price. The Series-E 100 is one of my go-to music video lenses on a Nikon or Canon DSLR.

The AF-era 85mm 1.8? I find that to be a pretty glorious lens - renders people beautifully. Another under-$300 choice if you shop around.

There are mountains of 80-200 2.8 AF push-pull zooms out there for under $400. Hell of a lot of mojo in that lens, pretty at 2.8 and very sharp at F4. Great compression, great bokeh and color. If you want the fun of a giant lens that you can grab candids with... always been a favorite. There are better 80-200 and 70-200 zooms, but not for $325 on the used market.