First 4x5

Another one of those... I've been looking at 4x5 cameras for a while and I'm thinking this might be the time to buy one. My knowledge about movements is very limited so I would probably start off with some basics and go from there. I have one lens ( for sale but I'm thinking of keep it ) a Fujinon 90mm f/8 with a Seiko shutter. The only 4x5 film back I have is a Graflex for 6x9, so far I'll shoot with 120 film until I upgrade my developing and scanning stages. But I' not sure I'll go full on with 4x5 film...

So, I'm looking at the Horseman VH and some different variants of Wistas. I know the VH is for the smaller 2x3 film backs, but those are what I've looked at and some others like Toyo. Actually, I've looked at almost all 4x5's on ebay! So, using my one lens, and one back, and looking forward to maybe purchasing a 6x12 back what would be a good camera to start with? I have about $600 to work with. My interest is mainly landscape and cityscapes. Not so much portraits.

I should probably add I'd prefer to keep this as compact as possible. Maybe lightweight, but doesn't have to be. Any Japanese sellers you'd suggest to look at their inventory? American sellers? And as I'm writing I'm wondering about another thing. Bellows. Are these easy to swap out so I could start with new? Or do I just patch up as I go?

Thanks!

I spent two years doing the very same. I wanted to go light, portable, and flexible for field work and went with a Toyo 45AII and alsO picked up a Graflex 6x7 back - and I'm extremely happy.

Mike

wjlapier said:

I should probably add I'd prefer to keep this as compact as possible. Maybe lightweight, but doesn't have to be. Any Japanese sellers you'd suggest to look at their inventory? American sellers? And as I'm writing I'm wondering about another thing. Bellows. Are these easy to swap out so I could start with new? Or do I just patch up as I go?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Yes -
Look at the sell pages of B.S. Kumar. He is a known quantity here and on the Largeformatphotography.info site. He is a really nice person, as honest as they come and he sells from Japan some of the very cameras and accessories that you yearn for. He often has Toyo FieldView cameras, and lenses and film holders &c at the prices you can afford.
Have fun !
John

Um, er, ah, a wide angle lens may work for cityscapes but isn't a good idea for the broad vista type of landscape. If however, you're planning to use a 2x3 roll holder, 90mm is a short normal focal length on 2x3.

Be aware that a roll holder made to fit a 4x5 Graflok back -- that's your Graflex holder and most but not all 6x12 roll holders -- won't fit a 2x3 (6x9 is a crude metric approximation) camera such as the VH. Horseman roll holders to fit 2x3 Horseman cameras are will regarded, but make sure to get the latest type. Read user manuals.

To find out which cameras have fixed bellows, read user manuals. I like modular cameras, even have a couple, but many of us get along very well with cameras that have fixed bellows. Really short lenses need bag bellows, 90 mm isn't really short.

Have you priced 6x12 roll holders? One of them will leave very little of your $600 for a camera.

If I had $600 and wanted to go 4x5, I'd buy a 4x5 Cambo SC with an international/Graflok back, not a bail/spring back, or a Sinar. I'd buy a 150/5.6 Fujinon-W for a normal lens, buy an ok inexpensive 210, keep the 90 and go shoot 4x5 from tripod.

Oh, yeah. For most of us, the first 4x5 camera was the wrong 4x5 camera. We learned this by trying to use the first one and learning what we didn't like about it. Until you've gained some experience everything you do will be wrong, so don't agonize over what's best, Just get started and start learning.

“If I had $600 and wanted to go 4x5, I'd buy a 4x5 Cambo SC with an international/Graflok back, not a bail/spring back, or a Sinar. I'd buy a 150/5.6 Fujinon-W for a normal lens, buy an ok inexpensive 210, keep the 90 and go shoot 4x5 from tripod.”

I’m quoting this so OP will read it twice. Words of wisdom. I was lucky enough to have made this decision in 1982 (although I bought Schneider rather than Fujinon) and haven’t regretted that decision yet.

Dan Fromm said:

Oh, yeah. For most of us, the first 4x5 camera was the wrong 4x5 camera. We learned this by trying to use the first one and learning what we didn't like about it. Until you've gained some experience everything you do will be wrong, so don't agonize over what's best, Just get started and start learning.

Click to expand...

I'm quoting this part to emphasize it, too. I started with a Combo monorail - it's got great movements and is quite sturdy. But I like to hike and shoot in the woods. So I bought a Chamonix and have been completely happy with it. You have to find what works for you and the only way to do that is to just go for it.

wjlapier said:

Another one of those... I've been looking at 4x5 cameras for a while and I'm thinking this might be the time to buy one. My knowledge about movements is very limited so I would probably start off with some basics and go from there. I have one lens ( for sale but I'm thinking of keep it ) a Fujinon 90mm f/8 with a Seiko shutter. The only 4x5 film back I have is a Graflex for 6x9, so far I'll shoot with 120 film until I upgrade my developing and scanning stages. But I' not sure I'll go full on with 4x5 film...

So, I'm looking at the Horseman VH and some different variants of Wistas. I know the VH is for the smaller 2x3 film backs, but those are what I've looked at and some others like Toyo. Actually, I've looked at almost all 4x5's on ebay! So, using my one lens, and one back, and looking forward to maybe purchasing a 6x12 back what would be a good camera to start with? I have about $600 to work with. My interest is mainly landscape and cityscapes. Not so much portraits.

Click to expand...

Compact 45 the original Linhof Kardan 45 with the solid rail or the second version with split rail. Uses modern Linhof Technika45 boards and accepts all International/Graflex 45 accessories plus 45 Graflok accessories plus all current .linhof Technika 45 viewing accessories and compendiums,

Unless you intend to do all kinds of adjustments, buy a Crown Graphic, I think there's a member trying to sell one here. Otherwise if you are going to shoot roll film buy a Fuji 6x7, 6x9 rangefinder. Sheet film is expensive and requires more equipment to process etc. I do love taking a half dozen holders out and shooting with my 4x5 Crown Graphic, handheld coupled rangefinder, press camera. Fun.
Consider a Fuji GW 690 120 film rangefinder, super fun. The 6x7 version also great and you get 10 shots to a roll.

i was in you same position. i have been shooting MF for my landscapes and have always wanted a nice small 4x5 system for landscape shooting. so I kept my eyes open and found a great deal on a toyo 45a system on craigslist. It is rock solid and stable. some people say its heavy, but im used to a pentax 67 system with 6 lenses in my backpack, so the 4x5 is much lighter. it was in great shape but needed new bellows. I bought it cheap, replaced the bellows and have begun my LF life. keep your eyes open, check KEH, roberts used photo for inventory. Kumar is a great patient guy for some used stuff, but I think he is taking a few months off now to work on a project.

when you find the system you want, a good place to start is sold listings on ebay to get a general idea of what prices things sold for. watch craigslist every other day for things as good priced items will sell fast. then add a lot for all the accessories you need. start simple with lenses. figure out your most used lens on whatever system you use now and get that one. learn with that and then decide what other lenses to add at a later date. make sure to clean out your film holders well.

Ive yet to print any of my forst 20 shots, but that story is for another thread. make sure to get a nice dark cloth or make one for easy shooting and a loop for focusing. after 30+ years of film shooting, I feel like Ive had to re-learn how to shoot again, and I love that fact.

john

Hi, Kumar's got a Sinar in the FS section for <$400. don't remember the model but a couple of them can be smallish
but not light They are modular and parts are pretty common.
He's having a clearance sale right now & the price may be reduced a bit more.

winger said:

I'm quoting this part to emphasize it, too. I started with a Combo monorail - it's got great movements and is quite sturdy. But I like to hike and shoot in the woods. So I bought a Chamonix and have been completely happy with it. You have to find what works for you and the only way to do that is to just go for it.

Click to expand...

I like to hike too. Spend a lot of time in Montana around Glacier National Park, but also in Idaho when fly fishing. Bringing a 4x5 camera will be interesting--I lugged around a Minolta Autocord in my lumbar bag this summer while fly fishing, but I'll most likely switch to a modular backpack for the times I want to bring the bigger camera--it doesn't always have to be with me on the river.

mshchem said:

Unless you intend to do all kinds of adjustments, buy a Crown Graphic, I think there's a member trying to sell one here. Otherwise if you are going to shoot roll film buy a Fuji 6x7, 6x9 rangefinder. Sheet film is expensive and requires more equipment to process etc. I do love taking a half dozen holders out and shooting with my 4x5 Crown Graphic, handheld coupled rangefinder, press camera. Fun.
Consider a Fuji GW 690 120 film rangefinder, super fun. The 6x7 version also great and you get 10 shots to a roll.

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Problem with the Fuji rangefinders is they are limited to 6x9--the 617 cameras are out of my budget--I want to eventually have a 6x12 back. And the 6x7 Fuji's are selling for ridiculous prices now. I had one but never used it so sold it.

John Koehrer said:

Hi, Kumar's got a Sinar in the FS section for <$400. don't remember the model but a couple of them can be smallish
but not light They are modular and parts are pretty common.
He's having a clearance sale right now & the price may be reduced a bit more.

Click to expand...

Kumar contacted me and reminded me of a conversation we had about the Horseman VH. He had a Toyo 45AR so I bought it. Now I wait for the pieces to arrive so I can take this camera out for some fall foliage. Maybe see how it travels while out fly fishing my local river.

Thanks for the comments from everyone. Something new and hopefully fun ahead.

I might have some questions later about developing 4x5 film and scanning it.

Congrats! I hope it works for you. Let us know how it goes.

Congrats! The Toyo 45A series are all wonderful. Any 4x5 can be a money pit (guilty) when you start looking at lenses etc. (let alone darkroom gear LOL). For lenses this is my favorite reference:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html

Mike

I too was a bit overwhelmed when I first got into Large Format. I've had several camera both press style and monorail, never had a field or technical camera yet. When I started out I bought a Pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic from a member on the Large Format Photography Forum. It came with a 210mm barrel lens and I think I paid all of $125 for it. I then bought a 100 sheet box of Ilford HP5+, 5 film holders on ebay for about $20, and a MOD 54 from B&H, as I don't really have a dark space where I can tray process. This all worked out very well for me. Over time I added more film holders, a camera store about an hour and a half from me often has used 4x5 holders for $5 a piece. I also added multiple lenses but am now back down to two. I have the 210mm barrel lens for my Speed Graphic and a 150mm Rodenstock on my Calumet monorail. The worst part of the whole process was getting used to loading the MOD54. Luckily several of my film holders had pre exposed film in them and I was able to use that for practice.

The Toyo 45AR arrived last week but it wasn't until yesterday that I started to clean the camera in preparation to installing the new bellows. What a mess! But it sure was nice to do a thorough cleaning. Should have the bellows on the camera by Sunday afternoon baring no issues with the screws. Taking this slow and photographing much of what I'm doing, Those photos helped a couple of times so far.

The camera is the largest one I've owned to date--the largest would be the Fuji GX680IIIIs. Looking forward to using it soon for some fall colors.