First 4x5 attempt: lots to troubleshoot - help!

[m_liddell]

I finally bit the bullet to start shooting 4x5 after using 6x7 backs on my Ebony for a year since I realised the shot to shot time/hassle was about the same.

Film was acros quickload (using quickload holder), development was in tubes using pyrocat m continuous agitation for 6min @ 24C. Dev time was a total guess in the absence of any data on the net.

I look a shot of my lounge knowing there would be a problem in at least some part of the process:

Problems:

1. The image is very displaced to the left from what I composed with massive light streaks. This is clearly a quickload issue but I followed the instructions exactly and everything appeared to work as it should.

2. Neg is very seriously thin. I places the shadows on zone IV so there should have been no problems, there is a tiny amount of development in the shadows so I suspect the dev. I got the dev time by taking 25% off an acros/pyrocat test in 120. Perhaps this is far too short, I loaded the film into the tube emulsion side down(!), or the tiny 60ml volume of dev I took from the 100ml mixed did not yield enough 'stuff' in the solution to develop properly.

3. 2 longitudinal scratches which must be from loading the tube. Upon recommendations I read I used a plastic sleeve inside to tube to aid removal so I think this is how the scratches came about.


Good points:

No uneven development or tray induced scratches which seem to be more usual problems.


Questions:

How are you meant to wash sheet film?

How do you deal with the film sinking to the bottom in trays during fixing and endangering them to the possibility of scratching?

Many thanks for any help!

 

[glbeas]

Looks like the quickload holder wasn't seated all the way into the back. That would account for the fogging and the off center position.
Look at how dense the fogging is. If you have a densitometer handy that would be great. Acros has a great way of holding shadow detail with long exposures and what I see may be underexposure as well as the development, if you were metering for the inside of the room rather than the outdoor scene.

 

[phaedrus]

Questions:

How are you meant to wash sheet film?

How do you deal with the film sinking to the bottom in trays during fixing and endangering them to the possibility of scratching?

Many thanks for any help!

First question: I use a Jobo 2551 drum for 4x5 and simply leave the sheets in the drum to water them. Jobo even makes a pressure hose for that purpose. For 8x10 I use a watering tray (11x16) originally meant for PE paper. Even with multiple sheets, they don't seem to scratch. That could also depend on the film, I use Acros as well in both formats.

Second question: Again, no worries for 4x5 in the Jobo drum. For tray developing 8x10, I never have more than one sheet in any of the trays, I don't stack them in the fixer, so, what should scratch them?

Best regards, Christoph

 

[m_liddell]

For tray developing 8x10, I never have more than one sheet in any of the trays, I don't stack them in the fixer, so, what should scratch them?

I take it it is safe for the film slide along the bottom on the ridges in the tray with no ill effects?

 

[Monophoto]

The safety of film in trays depends greatly on the orientation of the film - emulsion up is relatively safe, but emulsion down is problematic because of abrasion between the film and the bottom of the tray.

When the film is emulsion-up, there is a risk of damage to the emulsion if several sheets are stacked in the same tray. With 8x10 and larger film, the usual way to avoid this risk is to only process a single sheet at a time. With 4x5, the desire for higher productivity tends to drive most people to simultaneously process multiple sheets. One solution is to use a slosher that contains each sheet within a compartment. Commercial sloshers are available to process six sheets in 11x14' trays, and home-built sloshers can be made to do two sheets in an 8x10" tray.

If the sheets have to be stacked, then it is necessary to be exceedingly careful about how the film is agitated. The usual process is to repeatedly transfer the bottom sheet in the stack to the top of the stack. The problem here is that when that sheet is laid on top of the stack, it is entirely too easy to nick the emulsion of the sheet directly below it with a corner of the sheet being transferred. But if you know about that risk, it's not difficult to develop the discipline of carefully floating that sheet on top of the solution in the tray rather than dropping the sheet in, end first.

Finally, one thing to remember whenever employing any form of manual agitation of sheets - your finger nails can really do a job on film. Wearing rubber gloves helps avoid this problem.

 

[reellis67]

Slotted trays help make tray development easier, as the negatives can sink down without fear of getting 'stuck' to the bottom of the tray. I usually wash mine in hangers and tanks for the ease factor, but you could just as easily wash them in their own trays I suppose. As for scratches, I've never encountered a problem with anything but EFKE, which is softer I'm told than say Ilford films when wet. I can shuffle 8 4x5 negatives in trays, emulsion side down, without a problem with FP4+.

- Randy

 

[m_liddell]

After watching the video of use of BTZS tubes on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_KGv_SqbzU) I've ordered some hangers for washing and fixing, this looks like a good way to avoid scratches.

 

[Konical]

Good Afternoon,

"How are you meant to wash sheet film?

There are available washers specifically designed for sheet film, if not new, then at least on the used market. A very practical alternative is a flat piece of plastic with separators to keep the individual sheets in place. I don't know the brand name, but, years ago, Calumet sold such an item. Mine are for four 4 x 5 sheets. A similar item for two 5 x 7 sheets was also made. They are actually a different kind of sheet film hanger and can be used in dip-and-dunk tanks, but I use mine only for washing. These holders are designed to allow for circulation on the back side of the film. It wouldn't be difficult to make similar hangers with sheet plastic and nylon bolts spaced appropriately to secure the film My "washer" for sheet film is just a 16 x 20 tray and a Kodak tray siphon. The plastic holder moves around a bit during washing, and it's easy to see that water is circulating over the film surfaces. This is the only way I've used to wash 4 x 5 film for over twenty-five years, although I do keep an eye out for a good price on a sheet film washer and would certainly start looking seriously for one if I had a need to process and wash more than four sheets at a time.

Konical

 

[grahamp]

Although I process most of my 5x4 with a Jobo, I use an old Yankee tank for washing by putting it in the sink and using a soft hose down the center core. If I only have one tank to run, I'll wash in the tank on the machine. With multiple tank loads it uses less water to batch up loads in the Yankee. I only get three sheets in a 2509n spiral with my chemistry and dilution.

 

[lyonheart]

I got that exposure effect one by putting the holder in the wrong side of the back. Don't know how I managed it - in a rush I guess. Light leakage occurs. Looked just like that. I was amazed it worked to any extent!