Finding the "Right" Cheap SLR

flavio81 · Feb 18, 2017

cooltouch said:
It's probably worth noting, just for the sake of clarification, that you're describing switching the AE Mode Selector Switch back and forth from Shutter Priority to Aperture Priority.

Unless this switch is specifically mentioned, confusion may result when one reads about the discussion of this feature versus rotating the aperture ring or shutter speed dial.

Exactly. The switching between the 5 exposure modes of the A1 is as clear as it gets. Turn the mode dial and if the dial numbers are aperture, then you are in aperture priority mode. Turn it again and if the dial shows speeds then that's the speed you'll use. Look then at your aperture ring. That is the aperture you'll use (=manual mode). Want the camera to set the aperture? Turn the aperture ring to "A" (=shutter priority mode). Want the camera to select shutter speed as well? Set the shutter speed to "P" (=program mode). It is a mouthful, but once you handle the camera it is really, really easy to "get".

cooltouch · Feb 19, 2017

True enough. The only point where the A-1 departs from "logical" is for Aperture Priority, where the lens must remain set to the "A" setting. And where apertures are then selected by flipping the AE Mode Selector to the Av setting, then choosing the aperture with the same dial that is traditionally used for shutter speeds.

Theo Sulphate · Feb 19, 2017

I've tried to like the Canon A-1, but I just can't. For me, adjusting aperture settings on anywhere but the lens ring is awkward.

The same is true to a somewhat lesser extent with shutter speeds around the mount of my Nikkormat FT2 and Olympus OM-2N.

The most logical arrangement I've ever found on a camera and used is:

Lens at an aperture setting, shutter speed dial at shutter speed setting = manual

Lens at A, shutter speed dial at shutter speed setting = shutter priority

Lens at an aperture setting, shutter speed dial set to A = aperture priority

Lens at A, shutter speed dial set to A = program

The A settings lock and the viewfinder shows the aperture settings and the shutter speeds which will be used, plus the M, A, S, or P mode.

These external controls (the dials and rings) are wonderful.

Alas, I shouldn't mention on this forum which camera that is.

John Wiegerink · Feb 19, 2017

cooltouch said:
I own an F, two F2s, an F3 and an F4s. I can respect each for what it is, especially what it represented at the time of its introduction. I became quite fond of my F3 after using it for a while, and I'm deeply impressed by the F4's capabilities, but still, I prefer the F2 - and it doesn't matter too much which flavor of F2 it is. I just prefer mechanical cameras.

I do understand what your feelings for the F2. I owned an F2AS for many years and a F2 with DP1 before that. When I sold that F2AS I actually think I had a tear in my eye. That's the only camera I have sold that made me feel that way. A truly professional camera and finder.

Mastrianni · Feb 19, 2017

Isn't the middle image by Julia Margaret Cameron?

I can't help but wonder if the F4s AF capabilities (or lack thereof) were at least partially responsible for this shift in system brands by the pros...

Sorry, I was busy. In reference to the image being Julia Margaret Cameron, you may be right. But I'm only going by who it's attributed to on Google. So if I'm mistaken, my apologies. As far as the camera, it's definitely one of the cameras built by Miroslav Tichy.

The reason for white lenses is Canon did full frame digital first, and better than Nikon. It wasn't until Nikon went full frame and started building AF-S lenses that they caught up. And some say surpassed Canon. But, they are really the same in most respects now. They just leapfrog each other,...which is good for the consumer. Whether you shoot Nikon or Canon or some other brand,...it's all good. In film, we all have the same "sensors",...just different sizes.

M Carter · Feb 19, 2017

One of the most amazing camera body bargains these days is the Nikon 8008/8008s. Twenty bucks, thirty bucks? Nuts. And decades of glass available, much of which you can use on their current DSLRs.

The N90 is also a great value, and the 100, but prices eke up. I've seen 8008's go for ten bucks on ebay. Ridiculously capable and reliable camera, and the multi exposure setup is well thought out as well. Works with the MB10 grip, too.

cooltouch · Feb 20, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
The most logical arrangement I've ever found on a camera and used is:

Lens at an aperture setting, shutter speed dial at shutter speed setting = manual

Lens at A, shutter speed dial at shutter speed setting = shutter priority

Lens at an aperture setting, shutter speed dial set to A = aperture priority

Lens at A, shutter speed dial set to A = program

The A settings lock and the viewfinder shows the aperture settings and the shutter speeds which will be used, plus the M, A, S, or P mode.

These external controls (the dials and rings) are wonderful.

Alas, I shouldn't mention on this forum which camera that is.

Well, hmmm . . . interestingly enough, I was out shooting with my Nikon N80 and F4s today, and your description sounds a fair bit like both.
Except for the "lens set to A" bit. That's Canon FD stuff. But there aren't any FD Canons that operate the way you describe. So, you got me. What is it?

Theo Sulphate · Feb 20, 2017

cooltouch said:
... What is it?

In my case, Fuji X-Pro1.

Canon F-1N comes close, but I don't know what happens if lens is at A and shutter dial is at A.

The F4 (and even the Df) is capable of that functionality, but not in such an elegant and intuitive way because of the extra PASM selector.

flavio81 · Feb 20, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
In my case, Fuji X-Pro1.

Canon F-1N comes close, but I don't know what happens if lens is at A and shutter dial is at A.

I just tried this on my F1. It refuses to fire, logically, because a "true" professional does not use program mode... So camera says "rookie detected" and locks out.

(joking of course. But it will not fire under those circunstances).

Gerald C Koch · Feb 20, 2017

I have one of the Nikon N series cameras and quite frankly it is a pain in the ass to take the camera away from your eye and then try to change the mode using the stupid buttons. In fact it's nearly impossible to read the LCD screen in dim light. A click stopped wheel would have been a better design choice.

Theo Sulphate · Feb 20, 2017

flavio81 said:
I just tried this on my F1. It refuses to fire, logically, because a "true" professional does not use program mode... So camera says "rookie detected" and locks out.

(joking of course. But it will not fire under those circunstances).

I love it. You just sold me an F-1N.

fstop · Feb 20, 2017

F-1N best camera Canon ever made.

flavio81 · Feb 20, 2017

fstop said:
F-1N best camera Canon ever made.

See? We can agree on something. The world is a beautiful place now. And by the way, besides my criticism of the Nikon F3, the F3 was the favorite camera of the most important peruvian photojournalist, so basically most of the most important events in late 80s and all 90s were captured with a F3. They are plentiful here, so it was well liked.

flavio81 · Feb 20, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
I love it. You just sold me an F-1N.

Thanks sir! The problem is, i would never sell any of my F-1N cameras. One is the LA 1984 Olympics special model. I think i won't sell the 1971 F-1 either (i have one that looks mint).

I wish they were as plentiful as Nikon F2/F3 cameras! Getting my F2 cameras was easy - and i've found them with all the Photomic variations here in my country, including the coveted F2AS, which I had.

cooltouch · Feb 21, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
I have one of the Nikon N series cameras and quite frankly it is a pain in the ass to take the camera away from your eye and then try to change the mode using the stupid buttons. In fact it's nearly impossible to read the LCD screen in dim light. A click stopped wheel would have been a better design choice.

You might should give the N80 a try. It uses a dial and wheels for all the important stuff.

flavio81 · Feb 21, 2017

cooltouch said:
You might should give the N80 a try. It uses a dial and wheels for all the important stuff.

What i found nice about the N80 is that the shutter and mirror action is remarkably smooth. Sadly many of the Canon EOS pro cameras are not as good in this respect.

I have the Kodak DCS Pro SLR/n, which is a N80 modified and converted into a full frame DSLR! A big, big machine.

Mastrianni · Feb 23, 2017

Wow,...I thought I was the only one in the world who actually gave Kodak's SLR/n a whirl! Other than a 1/125th sync speed and a useless, (to me), pop up flash, it was really a decent camera. Unfortunately, Nikon wouldn't license them to use the F5 body. They also had a Canon version. (SLR/c) Their DCR software was very close to film at the time.

flavio81 · Feb 23, 2017

Mastrianni said:
Wow,...I thought I was the only one in the world who actually gave Kodak's SLR/n a whirl!

I thought it was a best seller!

I think that if the screen would have been better and larger, and the user interface 10 times quicker, and the battery 3 times smaller, it would have been a killer camera.

Mastrianni · Feb 23, 2017

LOL,...that stuff too. Of course, the technology was not there yet. A Nikon D2 series camera LCD was state of the art then. But if you look at it compared to todays LCD size and resolution,... they're pretty lame. But 14MP was a lot at the time.

Ricardo Miranda · Feb 23, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
These external controls (the dials and rings) are wonderful.

Alas, I shouldn't mention on this forum which camera that is.

What you described in your post fits perfectly a Pentax MZ-3, or a -5 or the cheap MZ-M.

cliveh · Feb 24, 2017

Mastrianni said:
Isn't the middle image by Julia Margaret Cameron?

Sorry, I was busy. In reference to the image being Julia Margaret Cameron, you may be right. But I'm only going by who it's attributed to on Google. So if I'm mistaken, my apologies. As far as the camera, it's definitely one of the cameras built by Miroslav Tichy.

No, not of Julia Margaret Cameron, but by her.

haziz · Feb 24, 2017

Your own Canon AE-1 is not a bad choice actually. Otherwise I would recommend an Olympus OM1, OM1N or OM2N, or a Pentax MX. The OM1 and MX are manual cameras. The Olympus OM2N adds aperture priority as an option.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 9, 2017

Huss said:
Nikon FE2 - fantastic camera, shows shutter and aperture values in the VF, full metered manual mode showing all that data. Cheap ($100-ish if you shop around), reliable, easy to find. The fact that its shutter runs from 1/4000 to 8 secs is nice too.

I'm not sure which Canon shows all the info in the VF and has easy manual metering - maybe the F1n? So you can use your existing lenses.

+1 on the Nikon FE2

cooltouch · Sep 10, 2017

+1 on just the regular FE too. It might not have the high shutter speeds and 1/250 flash sync, but it is a solid, good camera, and will do a great job all day long.

As for Canons, yes, for sure the New F-1 has a full information viewfinder. I'm trying to recall if the FTbN or old F-1 has a full info VF. I don't think they do. They show shutter speeds, but I don't think they display f/stops. I could be wrong. It's late and the cameras are downstairs and I don't feel like getting up and going down there to check them out. Also, the EF shows all the info, but like the A-series cameras, the aperture ring is not coupled to the meter.

Theo Sulphate · Sep 10, 2017

No aperture readout on FTb or FTbN.

FE also allows use of pre-AI lenses and can meter them in stop-down mode. FE2 cannot.

Finding the "Right" Cheap SLR

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