finding a darkcloth (sinar)

game · Nov 5, 2006

hi everyone,
I have a sinar f2 at this moment, and for easier focussing and framing, it features a binaloup which is some kind of box with view holes you can attach to the back, and it mirrors the images and blocks out some light.
Problem is that it's bulky.
So I figured I wanna go for a darkcloth. I don;t even know if that's the word.
But where to find it? what to pay attention to?
thanks A lot, Greetz game

Ian Grant · Nov 5, 2006

You can buy a darkcloth from many suppliers, but you can easily make your own.

All you need is a good piece of dark (black), light-tight material. Some cameras have fittings to hold a darkcloth. Like this:

Ian

Richard Kelham · Nov 5, 2006

Ian Grant said:
All you need is a good piece of dark (black), light-tight material.

Don't forget the lead weights in each corner...

Richard

juan · Nov 5, 2006

Some of us simply use a black T-shirt. Most seem to put the neck hole over the camera, but I put the neck hole over my head and extend the material over the camera. Some folks use a large towel. You might want to improvise something to see if you like the darkcloth before you spend any significant money.
juan

SteveH · Nov 5, 2006

I've been looking for a darkcloth for about a year. The reason I haven't found one yet is that the common household towel works just fine. Plus, its nice to have once you walk out of the stream you've been standing in (as seems to happen to me often).
If you are dead-set on one, I HIGHLY recommend that you make your own out of a water-proof material. Its nice to be able to toss it over your camera to protect it when the rainstorm comes and you're still 5mi from the car...

Bob F. · Nov 5, 2006

Some ideas for DIY cloths here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Cheers, Bob.

jp80874 · Nov 5, 2006

I like and have used the Harrison dark cloth from Camera Essentials for three years. The quality is excellent and several people shooting with me have ordered their own as well. The reflective side keeps out much of the heat and can be a rain cover as it is water proof. The dark side out can make things a little warmer in winter. Used either way it is dark where you want it dark and cooler than it might be if it were all black. I have the middle size for 4x5 and 8x10. I plan to order the large size for 7x17. Buy directly or use it as a model to make your own.

John Powers

Copied from their web site cameraessentials.com
silver classic dark cloth Can be used as a camera cover, raincover or dark cloth. Silver water-proof fabric on the outside, black on the inside.
3 Sizes Available:
40" by 40"
54" by 58"
54" by 80"
Hook-and-Loop closure along one side
Silver side is waterproof
Camera Essentials 2620 1/2 Hyperion Ave. Los Angeles, Ca. 90027
Tel: 323-666-8936 Fax: 323-666-0214 E-Mail: info@cameraessentials.com

Peter De Smidt · Nov 5, 2006

I have a Sinar. By far the best darkcloth that I have used is the Darkjacket. Plus, they are an APUG sponser! It blocks the light very well, it's light, it's flexible, it's confortable, and it's not that expensive.

reellis67 · Nov 5, 2006

I'm one of the towel crowd (I'd make a comment about never leaving home without your towel, but the last time I did, the joke went unnoticed) and it works quite well. I am considering making my own darkcloth, but I haven't yet found an obnoxious enough material design. If you're going to make one yourself, black cloth on the inside and white on the outside seems to suit most people.

- Randy

User Removed · Nov 5, 2006

Check out Kevin Saitta's darkcloths at www.kjsphotography.com

They are one of the nicest darkcloths I've ever used. Waterproof on the outside and flame resistant on the inside (in case you smoke while composing your pictures).

They are also one of the few darkcloths on the market that are 100% light tight. You can hold it up to the sun and not even see any pinholes!

He also makes them in custom sizes, as they are all handmade.

Dont take these other peoples suggestions about using t-shirts, old towels, your socks or recycled toilet paper. Just get a REAL darkcloth, because you will be much happier.

All the best,

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh

Aggie · Nov 5, 2006

Peter De Smidt said:
I have a Sinar. By far the best darkcloth that I have used is the Darkjacket. Plus, they are an APUG sponser! It blocks the light very well, it's light, it's flexible, it's confortable, and it's not that expensive.

I agree! you don't have to have three or four arms to use it either. Nothing worse than trying to hold the dark cloth closed, while focusing with the loop thinbgy, and also adjust the camera focusing. If you live in a humid hot place, that dark cloth time can turn into torture, and a sweat box. Blackjacket ahs two versions. The breathable and non breathable. Each has advantages depending on where you live. It's money well invested just for sanities sake and ease of useage.

game · Nov 5, 2006

thanks everyone for the input.
I am more on the buying a actual darkcloth side, than on the DIY side. When something is easy to make you're self, and you can save a lot of cash doing so, I am the first to make that effort.
But in this case I feel more for a proffesional solution (no offence off course for the DIY'ers)

Anyway, I read about three 'prfessional' brand that offer cloths in this thead.
* The darkjacket
* Kevin Saitta's darkcloths
* The BLACKJACKET

Are they all equally great?
I noticed the kevin saitta is more of a cloth type, whil the blackjacket is more of a coat. What's best?
The darkjacket I could not find anywhere....

Hope for some furder info on this.

THANKS game

Bob F. · Nov 5, 2006

APUG sponsor www.viewcamerastore.com also stock the BTZS "hood" type cloth.

Cheers, Bob.

Peter De Smidt · Nov 5, 2006

Ok, that's my bad. By "darkjacket" I really meant blackjacket.

The problem with blanket-style solutions in my experience is that they have to be huge in order to get rid of most of the light leaks, and then you have to tediously use clips in various places to keep light from leaking in, expecially with rail cameras. When photographing in windy conditions, a large sheet makes a very good sail or kite.

Before my Blackjacket, the regular one btw, I used a very dark and dense sweatshirt. This was on a Toho, not a Sinar. It worked OK, as I could put the elasticized neck right over the back bellows frame. I still had to put my arms and head through the waist openning, but with that camera, it worked ok.

With the Sinar, though, this didn't work. (I have a Sinar P with 8x10 and 4x5 configurations.) The 8x10 Blackjacket works terrifically with both. If I lost mine, I'd immediately replace it with the same thing.

resummerfield · Nov 5, 2006

I originally used a simple piece of black cloth, the “horse blanket” style. Later I acquired the BTZS “tube” and then the BlackJacket.

The BTZS and BlackJacket are optimum in windy conditions. They also make a very good light seal around the perimeter of the gg, such as you need in very bright conditions. But for general use, they are more difficult to fit, and make inserting and removing film holders more difficult.

So for all but the most challenging situations, I generally use the “horse blanket” style. The added benefit here is the ease of shielding the film holders from direct sunlight when pulling or inserting the slide, and shielding the entire camera/bellows from direct sun.

I made my “horse blanket” from a tight weave black material—something like an "ultra suede", I guess. It does not have to be totally light-tight to work, and since it is open at the bottom, it doesn't have to be reflective on the outside (but remember, I'm in Alaska, not Arizona). On the next one I make, I’ll put some Velcro along the edges to help secure it around the camera. Or just purchase something similar pre-made, like the Harrison, or Kevin’s.

naturephoto1 · Nov 5, 2006

Peter De Smidt said:
I have a Sinar. By far the best darkcloth that I have used is the Darkjacket. Plus, they are an APUG sponser! It blocks the light very well, it's light, it's flexible, it's confortable, and it's not that expensive.

I use both the Darkjacket hybrid and the BTZS dark cloths with my Linhof Technikardan 45S. I have had the BTZS dark cloth for some years. Is is lighter than the Darkjacket hybrid. When I purchased the newer Darkjacket hybrid, I opted for the hybrid rather than the original (which is about the same weight of the BTZS at 8oz), I wanted a dark cloth that would breath better in more humid conditions as in eastern PA. Both the original Darkjacket and the BTZS dark cloths will not breath as well as the Darkjacket hybrid. Both dark cloth designs (either Darkjacket or BTZS) will work well in wind and they do not need the addition of weights. I particularly like the Darkjacket design because you can put your head in and have sleeves for both arms so that you can work with a loupe. I do also like the BTZS but is a tube.

Rich

User Removed · Nov 5, 2006

Personally, I much prefer an actual DARKCLOTH over those little jackets and tubes and junk. Not only do I find it annoying to have to stick your hands inside them, and having to tie or elastic them to your camera, but I think people just look goofy when using them!

It's so much easier to just have a normal darkcloth, swing it over your camera and compose and focus, then let it drop to the ground when your ready to take the picture.

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

game · Nov 5, 2006

well,
I must admit a simple cloth, instead of a sleevedesign cloth, seems easier to use. Indeed, just swing it over the camera, dive underneath and ready.
I don't care for looking goofy, but I do care for longterm satisfaction, and wrestling with a complicated design will irritate me.
So I guess it's a decision between a blackjacket sleeve design, or a saitta cloth.
Can someone help me here ... ; is wind an issue for the traditional darkcloth?
is a sleeve design less easy to use?
thanks Game

User Removed · Nov 5, 2006

When I'm in windy conditions and using my darkcloth, I simply just take it off the camera when making the exposure so it does not move the camera around at all. If its windy when your under the darkcloth trying to compose, and the wind is blowing the darkcloth around...it's probably too windy to photograph! If your shooting large format and the wind is blowing your darkcloth...it's also going to blow your bellows when your making your exposure.

Second, when your making your exposure (and its not windy) many people will insert the film holder then lay the darkcloth over the back of the camera so no light leaks into where the holder is. When your using the little elastic tubes and such, you cannot do this!!! The tube or jacket must be completely removed to put in the film holder.

All the best,

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

game · Nov 5, 2006

Hmm I see,
well, can anyone bring in some good arguments for using a sleeve design?
THANKS AGAIN!

Aggie · Nov 5, 2006

Well I have been using a black jacket for quite a while now. Not only does it easily attach it is easy to use. When I go to put the film holders in, I just push the darkcloth up and around the bellows. It doesn't have to be taken completely off. It also doesn't act like a sail if it is windy. Next If you want to take it off between shots and move about with your camera, the black jacket can be worn in cold times as another layer. I like it because I use to have to use one hand to hold the dark cloth on and the other to use the loop, yet needed a thrid to adjust the focus on the camera. With the black jacket I no longer have to have three hands. You don't need to weight it. OHHH and also dark jacket that keeps being mentioned, is blackjacket misspelled. As if I can spell. I also don't like to drop my dark cloths in the dirt and have dirt that will need to be cleaned off, or possibly get into my next shot. We fight dust enough without needing to bring more into the picture.

User Removed · Nov 5, 2006

game said:
Hmm I see,
well, can anyone bring in some good arguments for using a sleeve design?
THANKS AGAIN!

When it's raining outside...you can wear them to stay dry!!! SEE HERE-
http://www.quietworks.com/FRAMES_FILES/BJ_SPECIFICATIONS/BJ_FEATURES_FRAME_JACKET.html

*cough*lame*cough*

game · Nov 5, 2006

hmmm, that's lame indeed,

But it might be good for protecting the camera.
I will ask some people outside of thos forum.
I'll post my decision
Greetz game

User Removed · Nov 5, 2006

This past summer I spend two months camping out and photographing in Iceland. We were faced with rain almost every other day, if not a slight rain EVERY day! Because I was there to photograph, the light rain was not going to stop me from making images.

Before going on the trip I waterproofed my darkcloth with two coats of ScotchGuard waterproofing spray, both the inside and out. With having the darkcloth, I was able to keep the WHOLE camera covered from the lens back, and still have it long enough to focus and compose the image. My bellows were often out to 24" or more, and they were protected completely by the large darkcloth drapped over. Clearly you could not do this with that little jacket. It would be impossible.

When I was using the darkjacket in cold weather, I often had the problem of my hot breath being trapped inside and fogging up my ground glass. If your ever photographing in cold weather, this is something you will want to think about. The problem still happens with a normal darkcloth, but not nearly as bad.

Richard Kelham · Nov 5, 2006

Peter De Smidt said:
The problem with blanket-style solutions in my experience is that they have to be huge in order to get rid of most of the light leaks, and then you have to tediously use clips in various places to keep light from leaking in, expecially with rail cameras. When photographing in windy conditions, a large sheet makes a very good sail or kite.

But then so does a large camera bellows

Richard
(User of dark cloth with weights)

finding a darkcloth (sinar)

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