finding a certain LPL enlarger

This might be a bit strange sounding, but I'm wondering what my options are in LPL enlargers for B&W work, in 35mm, 6x6 and 6x7.

For a bit of background on this question, in a few months I'll be moving to Thailand, where I'll need to set up a darkroom. The owner of my favorite local camera shop was helping me with this, and he spoke highly of the LPL enlargers. He also said I might have better luck finding one in Asia for cheaper because of the distribution deals LPL goes through here in the U.S. Sadly, my friend died of a heart attack last week, and the shop is now about to close because Larry was the human database of all things photography and really was the only one who *knew * the store, and no one can take over what he did.

We were talking about setting up a darkroom, and he highly suggested an LPL enlarger, but we never got to finish the conversation, and I can't find out what enlarger he might have had in mind. I tried googling, but I can't find a comprehensive rundown of the LPL line, and most sale pages confuse me with all the different Saunders and Omega co-branded models listed in no apparent categories.

Anyone know what I might be looking for?

-Rick

The B&W enlargers LPL makes are of two kinds: the 4550XL and the 4500 models. The VCCE (variable contrast constant exposure) head has built in filtration in grades 00 to 5. The only significant differences between the 4500 and 4550 that I can remember is that the 4550 uses a 250 watt bulb and has a larger baseboard and extra length girder, whereas the 4550 has a 200 watt bulb and smaller baseboard and girder. If you don't plan to make prints larger than 11x14 (or 12x16) the 4500 will be fine...not that you can't make larger ones, it just is more convenient with the 4550. Hope you get set up successfully.

Thanks, jovo. I really don't know anything about enlarger models or brands, and I'm glad I asked here. Up until now I was figuring that i was either looking for the 6700 or 7700, but I guess that's if I want the option of printing color?

Right now I just use enlargers at the arts center, but we were never taught anything about different enlargers or buying other darkroom equipment. I like the sound of having the filters built in. I will check out the ones you mentioned. I hope we get set up soon after we get out there!

EDIT: rats -- is that a 4x5 enlarger? (I guess that makes sense with the model number, duh.) And that's my only option with LPL, nothing smaller? I didn't expect to do this on the cheap, but that costs a whole lot more than I can handle, at least looking at the prices new.

Hi, I have a Saunders/LPL 670 VCCE and can recommend it highly. It has built in filters for b/w contrast control, and will do up to 6x7 negatives. The 4500 series is much larger. The 670 VCCE is called VC7700PRO outside the US, I believe. The VCCE stands for variable contrast, constant exposure.

hope this helps,

Jon

My immediate previous enlarger was the LPL 7700 with the colour head insert. One of the more interesting facts is that if you wish to do really large prints you can purchase (very cheaply) the wall mounting brackets for the original LPL 4x5 enlarger, not the latest model, but the first.

Apart from having to drill one hole, right at the top of the column, it mounts perfectly. This, with my home made drop table was an almost perfect set-up.

Mick.

This is a coincidence, I just saw an LPL 3301D on eBay that could be selling rather cheaply (based on minimum amount of interest so far). http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7552960155&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

For something I don't need, how much should I pay for it. Remember I already have a nice working enlarger and it'd be great to get it for say A$50 (=US$38) ! I can't believe I'm doing this, buying something on eBay that I REALLY don't have a need for, I can usually justify my eBay splurges somehow or another

thanks
Peter

PS if another aussie APUGer outbids me, well I guess I wasn't meant to have it !

LPL

http://www.lpl-web.co.jp/

The address above is the Japanese LPL site. It has a listing of current models only written in Japanese, but at least you can see what the company makes.

I own a VC6700 model, but I personally wouldn't recommend it to you because of its weak column if you're intending to make prints larger than 8x10". But if you end up in a tiny apartment and have to bring an enlarger into the bathroom every time you print, this light weight enlarger might suit to your purpose. And unlike Leica or any old enlargers, you can perhaps find its accessories rather easy and cheap. The 7700 series have a better column design, but the head could still shake if you raised it pretty high and touched it by accident.

I have a D6700 Dichro model that I think is very nice. The great thing about the Dichro heads is that you have all your filters in the head and don't have to insert them below the lens. You also can do split filtering.

You might want to research prices on these and see where they fall. I'm personally on the border as to keeping mine as any work I do in the future will be either alt contacts or slides, so keep me in mind if you interested.

thanks for all the responses. I was looking for the LPL site before but couldn't find it, and it helps to see the lineup, even though I can't read it (thank god the html filenames are in english!). I have a friend who can help me with the translations, though. Although, I did need that English-English translation for VCCE I just boned up on dichroic enlargers too; I had been under the impression they were strictly for color printing.

I probably will be setting up in an apartment bathroom, and I hadn't even thought of size and hauling it in and out of the bathroom. As I poke around the net now looking at the D6700, I'm betting that this is what the shop owner was suggesting. It looks small enough, and the presumably used prices I'm finding seem to be in range of what we're looking for. Wayne, I'd like to take you up on it, but we're going to get all our darkroom supplies in Bangkok. Our luggage list is already too huge with bulky and/or expensive gear!

what's it like printing 11x14 or even 16x20 with the 6700? I could probably do without it, but you know, it'd be nice to have option.

6700

stet said:

what's it like printing 11x14 or even 16x20 with the 6700? I could probably do without it, but you know, it'd be nice to have option.

Click to expand...

My experience with the VC/VCCE 6700 was that I felt insecure to raise the head more than 1/2 of the column. It's just not built like Omega D2, which I was so used to. Besides, I do crazy dance while printing in the darkroom, so for me everything has to be very secure. So, right now I'm set with a Fuji FD690 which is a LPL OEM product (only available in Japan, I believe) featuring a 7700 condenser head and a 7454 column. It's robust and doesn't move an inch even when there's earthquake.

But for 35mm neg, with a 50mm lens, you can print 11x14" without much trouble with the 6700 unless you switch filters or things like that. Some people say they have no trouble doing split-filtering with VC head enlargers, using the built-in filters by turning the nobs that are attached to the heads, but that's not the case for me. I would recommend that you set a filter folder on the lens and use the filters there instead.

And for printing real large like 16x20", you can try with the nomal setting. But also you can set the base board backwards, put it on the end of the table, and set your easel on the floor. This is what mostly people do when projecting large with small and mid-size enlargers if necessary.

So, I didn't try much with the 6700, which I still keep in a box. If you like, or in case you can't find any which I doubt, though, I can sell and ship it to you from Japan. It's only a year old, but I only used it for about a couple of months.

Good luck.

firecracker said:

But if you end up in a tiny apartment and have to bring an enlarger into the bathroom every time you print, this light weight enlarger might suit to your purpose.

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Thanks for the info. I decided not to bid after all, since it did look on the small size. FWIW, it sold for about US$27 !

thanks for the offer, Firecracker. I hear that Bangkok's Chinatown has a bunch of great photo-supply shops, and that there's a lot of darkroom liquidation going on in general also. But if I strike out, I'll keep you in mind.
And thanks for the explanation about the column -- you had me LOL because I'm pretty "active" when I'm printing with headphones on.

But this all brings up more confusion. I gather what VCCE means, but what's the difference between the VC7700, C7700, the 7700, C6700 and VC6700? Is the D6700 older, or branded differently for distribution reasons, becuase it's not on the LPL website.

I know that could be asking a hell of a long, detailed answer, but I guess I mean in general. I mean, I'm looking for only B&W, and the entry-level model that can do up to 6x7.

I'm bad in english language though, really good in reading Japanese cause I'm a Japanese(^^;
6600 is 6x6 format, 6700 and 7700 lines are 6x7. ... confuising...
6600 and 7700 are for B&W work, which means no build in filter.
"C"6700 and "C"7700 are for "COLOR" work with built in color filters, "VC"6700 and "VC"7700 are for B&W work with "VCCE" B&W filter built in.
If you just do B&W and up to 6x7, VC7700(with VCCE) or 7700(without VCCE).
Mine is 7454 (4x5 with no VCCE, no color filter). It' a nice enlarger.

I should have added this...
7700 is condenser, C7700 and VC7700 are diffusion.

I have the D6700 and I am happy with it. I picked it up used 3 years ago. I started out doing 8X10 prints and worked up to 11X14 recently with nice results. With 35mm negatives I get what I consider good exposure times. Usually 15-20 seconds for 8X10 at f8 and approximately the same times for 11X14 prints at f 5.6 but of course it depends on the density of the negative.

LPL

stet said:

thanks for the offer, Firecracker. I hear that Bangkok's Chinatown has a bunch of great photo-supply shops, and that there's a lot of darkroom liquidation going on in general also. But if I strike out, I'll keep you in mind.
And thanks for the explanation about the column -- you had me LOL because I'm pretty "active" when I'm printing with headphones on.

But this all brings up more confusion. I gather what VCCE means, but what's the difference between the VC7700, C7700, the 7700, C6700 and VC6700? Is the D6700 older, or branded differently for distribution reasons, becuase it's not on the LPL website.

I know that could be asking a hell of a long, detailed answer, but I guess I mean in general. I mean, I'm looking for only B&W, and the entry-level model that can do up to 6x7.

Click to expand...

Stet, no problem. "VC" stands for Various Contrast, meaning it's a diffuser head type. "C" stands for Color, meaning color head enlarger, but you can still make B&W prints by turning the color nobs down. "D" stands for Dichro; it's often just another name for the color heads, but I'm not exactly sure about it and don't know why it is so.

In general VC heads and C heads essentially have the same effect on your prints: Scratches and dust on the negs appear remarkably less than the condenser head type (like the 7700 Pro and the 6600 model from LPL). But at the same time, the VC and C heads tend to produce the images rather softer. For the differences in the image quality between these types of enlargers with various opinions, you can search for older threads here, and you'll be able to find quite a lot for your input.

To answer your last question, I would say, you should go to photo equipment and supply stores, where you can find those particular enlargers in your mind, and try using them as if you're printing. In my opinion, enlarger columns are important, and that may be the only thing that you can test in the stores. So just poke the heads of the display models and see how stable or shaky they are. And you can search for a used one of the same type for the cheaper price if that's desirable. If these stores have it, ask the store clerk(s) about the condition and its coverage (warranty and the returning policy). For printing B&W up to 6x7, any of the 7700, 6700, 6600 series can handle (if you like LPL), but just take a look at them and actually feel them first.

Normally (if you're in the U.S. market for used equipment, which I'm familiar with because I used to live in the East Coast) you see more people going for Omega D2 and Beseler 23c beause these types are popular and easy to be found(, and they don't cost much). I use the LPL (OEM) product, Fuji FD690 only because I'm in Japan and find it as a good substitute for the Omega D2 (with a condenser head that I know of) in terms of the quality for the most part.

In the Japanese market, it's almost impossible to find a decent D2 or 23c for a reasonable price simply because no one, not a single dealer imports these products any more. And if I need the accessaries for them, forget it. Using eBay auction may be the only option to cut down the cost and time (, which a lot of photography enthusiasts seem to do only to get the surface values of those brand names), but the shipping and maintanenance fees can eventually add up pretty high anyway.

I don't know about the situation in Bankok or any other parts of Asia other than Japan, but let me know if you need some information that's only available here.

kunihiko said:

6600 is 6x6 format, 6700 and 7700 lines are 6x7. ... confuising...

Click to expand...

You're right. the 6600 is for up to 6x6 size.

Hi Stet,

Although in Swedish, these links have some pictures that could be of interest.
On the top of each page there's a navigation bar that takes you to technical data (tekniska data) and LPL accessories (tillbehör):

LPL 6600

LPL VCCE 6700

LPL C6700

I hope it add something.

cheers,

Rick--

LPL is currently distributed in the USA by Omega, previously by Saunders.

If you go to http://www.omegasatter.com/v2/products/displaybrand.cfm?BrandID=151, the Omega website will bring up the enlargers that are available. I don't know what the designations would be in other countries.

There are two series of medium format enlargers--the 6600/6700 and the 670. The 6600/6700 are budget enlargers, the 670 enlargers heavier duty.

I have the 670CXL and love it. It may not be as rock solid as enlargers like the Beseler 23C series but it's a well-made, sturdy enlarger. It's as big as my small darkroom can handle and it's small and light enough to move out of the room in one piece if necessary.

thanks again for the primer on LPL enlargers, and on enlargers in general. I think firecracker's post has given me the basic terms that I need to be able to figure out anything on my own. I had searched around for info on enlargers and LPL enlargers and was just lost amid terse sale descriptions and model numbers.

I didn't know of the quality difference btw. condenser an diffuser. I've used both at my local arts center, and tomorrow I'll go check it out. There's a row of 35-6x6 enlargers (I think Omega). and then a 4x5 Beseler that I use for 6x7.

Jeez. I'm soaking in a lot on this site. there's a lot to learn, and I hope I can start answering some other newbie's questions in the future. Thanks, APUG.

stet said:

thanks again for the primer on LPL enlargers, and on enlargers in general. I think firecracker's post has given me the basic terms that I need to be able to figure out anything on my own. I had searched around for info on enlargers and LPL enlargers and was just lost amid terse sale descriptions and model numbers.

I didn't know of the quality difference btw. condenser an diffuser. I've used both at my local arts center, and tomorrow I'll go check it out. There's a row of 35-6x6 enlargers (I think Omega). and then a 4x5 Beseler that I use for 6x7.

Jeez. I'm soaking in a lot on this site. there's a lot to learn, and I hope I can start answering some other newbie's questions in the future. Thanks, APUG.

Click to expand...

Stet, you're welcome. This is where we all want to share information and help out each other. And if the whole world was this, I bet we would have a much better life on earth.

About the LPL thing, it was a recent event for me, too when I started to buy the stuff in Japan. It's like finding the original names of subtitled foreign movies, which is quite confusing and can be often frustrating.

Anyway, good luck on your search/research, and check back with us here any time.