Finally snagged a Solinar

BHuij · Feb 16, 2022

I've always been fascinated by folding scale focus cameras like the Isolette series. But even with a rangefinder, I have always struggled to have confidence in nailing the focus. Consequently I never really know, when a shot comes out looking soft, if it was because the lens is no good, or because I simply didn't quite get the focus right.

I've always wondered what the Agfa 85mm lenses from their 6x6 folders were really capable of. I had an Agnar and an Apotar, both restored (unstuck), clean, and in working shutters. I toyed with the idea of designing and 3D printing a simple box camera that would allow me to focus through the lens before taking the picture.

Fast forward a couple of years, I found the Goodman Zone camera and enthusiastically 3D printed one. Results with an old Graflar 101mm lens came out looking promising. This felt like the perfect camera to try out the Agnar and Apotar lenses. I did just that. The Agnar was surprisingly good. The Apotar was, unsurprisingly, somewhat better. So of course... now I wanted a Solinar.

Been watching ebay for weeks, and almost got one once (outbid by $1 at the 0:02 second mark). This morning I decided to search on a whim and found one in great condition, no scratches, no stuck front cell, in a tested and confirmed working Compur Rapid shutter... for $65. I think I caused a sonic boom with how quick I clicked on the Buy it Now button. Can't wait to get it on the camera and see what it's capable of!

Dan Daniel · Feb 16, 2022

I doubt that God is really watching Ebay (I doubt that God even is, but best to avoid that, eh?) but sometimes it does seem like it is working to reward you. LOts of concerted effort that always falls short, athen BINGO, the item just falls into your lap.

I hope that the Solinar works out. It'd be great to see the final 3-d printed camera when done.

Question on your 3-d body already printed: how do helicals come out on today's 3-d printers? Te printers I was around a few years ago were lower end, and resolution was, well, not the best. Maybe the materials easily clean up. Do you need to build in extra material and then plan on removing the jagged steps? Or maybe resolution is such now that this isn't an issue.

moggi1964 · Feb 16, 2022

My Agfa Isolette II has the Solinar F/3.5 75mm lens. She was working quite well but a little stiff to focus and being as she is a keeper I got her serviced

She was my first 6x6 about a year ago I think and I did struggle to get the hang of framing and guessing exposure but I am happy with the results. I think you will be too on your Goodman.

Here's images I took. Can't recall what film. might have been Kentmere 400.Low res scans I'm afraid.

gone · Feb 16, 2022

I used to shoot the Agfa folders, all the way up to the Super Isolette w/ a Solinar. Nicely designed, the finish and coverings hold up well, and they're very rigid w/ the bed dropped down. Just avoid the models w/ the shiny bellows. The Apotar is a really good 3 element lens, then things sharpen up w/ the more expensive lenses, but all of them are very good. The Agnar was my favorite, it had more "character" w/ Tri-X and a yellow filter.

BHuij · Feb 16, 2022

@moggi1964 Looks great! Makes me really excited to try mine out when it arrives. You mentioned that yours was a 75mm f/3.5? I thought the Solinar only came on Isolettes as an 85mm f/4.5?

@Dan Daniel To answer your questions, I have attached a picture of the camera with the 3D printed 6x6 back. The back needs some work. I'm likely going to make some pretty substantial design overhauls and try printing another one. It gets the job done, kind of, but the dark slide situation is insufficient to keep light out when the back isn't attached to the camera.

As far as the helicoid, it's surprisingly good. It's not a precision machined feel by any stretch. It's large and fairly rough. This was printed with 0.2mm layers on my printer (which is basically standard resolution). I could go down as low as 0.08mm layers on my printer if I wanted to, but that would nearly triple already pretty long print times, and the way the helicoid is designed, I think any improvements in smoothness would be marginal at best. I will say this - it is rugged and effective, and I have never had a problem getting critical focus with it. It's just not at the level of "so buttery smooth it's a joy to use." I have toyed with the idea of putting in some lithium grease or similar to see if that improves the feel, but precision is already not an issue, and introducing something like that would probably lead to problems down the line. I am primarily a nature photographer, so even when I'm being careful, my Goodman Zone gets exposed to plenty of dirt and dust in the air that would pretty quickly make its way into the helicoid and convert my lubrication into valve grinding compound

BHuij · Feb 16, 2022

momus said:
I used to shoot the Agfa folders, all the way up to the Super Isolette. Nicely designed, the finish and coverings hold up well, and they're very rigid w/ the bed dropped down. Just avoid the models w/ the shiny bellows. The Apotar is a really good 3 element lens, then things sharpen up w/ the more expensive lenses, but all of them are very good. The Agnar was my favorite, it had more "character" w/ Tri-X and a yellow filter.

I couldn't believe how well the Agnar performed once I stopped it down a bit and focused it on a ground glass. My understanding was always that it was among the cheapest and least inspiring Cooke triplet style lenses that was ever widely produced, with everyone saying the Apotar was far better. It doesn't hurt that my Agnar was in a Vario shutter which only had a few speeds. The Apotar is in a Compur Rapid that is in excellent condition and has extremely accurate speeds all the way up to 1/500, and even 1/500 is only about 1/3 of a stop slow by my measurements. The Solinar I bought is in the same kind of shutter, but if that copy isn't quite as nice, I won't hesitate to put the glass into the shutter my Apotar is now occupying

nosmok · Feb 17, 2022

Congrats! The Solinar is IMHO one of the great lenses of the world. Every format iteration I've had it in (35mm, 6x9, 4x5) has been fantastic. Fun fact: the early versions of it were named "Solinear" for obvious eponymic reasons ("This lens is SO LINEAR!", he exclaimed). Agfa must have decided it sounded better without the 'E', more in line with Schneider and Zeiss.

AgX · Feb 17, 2022

Thank you for this background information.

moggi1964 · Feb 17, 2022

BHuij said:
@moggi1964 Looks great! Makes me really excited to try mine out when it arrives. You mentioned that yours was a 75mm f/3.5? I thought the Solinar only came on Isolettes as an 85mm f/4.5?

,,,,,,,

Thanks and yes, so did I and then I found this for £35

Helge · Feb 18, 2022

nosmok said:
Congrats! The Solinar is IMHO one of the great lenses of the world. Every format iteration I've had it in (35mm, 6x9, 4x5) has been fantastic. Fun fact: the early versions of it were named "Solinear" for obvious eponymic reasons ("This lens is SO LINEAR!", he exclaimed). Agfa must have decided it sounded better without the 'E', more in line with Schneider and Zeiss.

Interesting. The Rietzschel Company seems to have been the original inventor and was absorbed by Agfa.
Strange that a German company would take a clearly English name. The usual seems to be Latin and/or Latin suffix “ar/nar” or something German.

Helge · Feb 18, 2022

moggi1964 said:
Thanks and yes, so did I and then I found this for £35

View attachment 298589

Is it light tight and does the focal helicoid move?
Not bad, but Isolettes often go for even less. They are underappreciated because of the aforementioned problems. And because they don’t have Zeiss or Schneider or Tessar in the name that are easily recognizable and googleable.
If the bellows and focus works, they are every bit as good as the Zeiss folders.
In fact, even a bit better I’d say.
They somehow feel more substantial and have some very nice small extra features. - The spool holder that folds out and flips open for ultra easy loading. - The T lever that allows time instead of Bulb (no need to hold the cable plunger or shutter trigger). - Extremely rigid folding struts and standard with strong springs.

BHuij · Feb 18, 2022

Helge said:
Is it light tight and does the focal helicoid move?.

Can't speak for the owner of that 75mm f/3.5, but the 5 or so Isolettes I've encountered ALL had the green yak snot cement stuck on the front cell, and pinholes in the bellows. I made a new bellows for one and have unstuck a few of the lenses now haha. If you go into it expecting to refurbish the lens and replace the bellows, you can get really good deals on Isolettes with Agnars and Apotars, since they're frequently sold as "untested" or "not working/for parts" when all they need is a little love and a new bellows. The Solinar versions were for me a lot harder to find.

That said, the listing on eBay for the one I just ordered said that the camera is in good working condition and specifically that the bellows had "no tears." I'll believe that when I see it, but frankly I'm buying the camera for the lens, so I don't much care about the bellows. Listing didn't specifically say anything about the front cell, so I'm fully expecting it to be stuck when it arrives.

moggi1964 · Feb 18, 2022

Helge said:
Is it light tight and does the focal helicoid move?
Not bad, but Isolettes often go for even less. They are underappreciated because of the aforementioned problems. And because they don’t have Zeiss or Schneider or Tessar in the name that are easily recognizable and googleable.
If the bellows and focus works, they are every bit as good as the Zeiss folders.
In fact, even a bit better I’d say.
They somehow feel more substantial and have some very nice small extra features. - The spool holder that folds out and flips open for ultra easy loading. - The T lever that allows time instead of Bulb (no need to hold the cable plunger or shutter trigger). - Extremely rigid folding struts and standard with strong springs.

I was fortunate that it did move pretty smoothly and it was completely light-tight. When I knew I was going to keep it and I had read about the Agfa Green Goo I decided a service was a good idea. Now the helicoid moves like warm butter.

I have never owned a Zeiss folder but everything you describe about the Agfa is how I would describe my own.

Helge · Feb 18, 2022

moggi1964 said:
I was fortunate that it did move pretty smoothly and it was completely light-tight. When I knew I was going to keep it and I had read about the Agfa Green Goo I decided a service was a good idea. Now the helicoid moves like warm butter.

I have never owned a Zeiss folder but everything you describe about the Agfa is how I would describe my own.

Did you send it out or perform the service yourself?

I wonder if there is a way to spot the leather bellows from the "paper" ones?
Of the box of probably eight repair worthy Isolettes I have, only one is with leather bellows, and it's only visible by very close inspection. And that bellows like all other leather bellows that hasn't been abused or left open for years as bric-à-brac on a shelf is in perfect condition.

Helge · Feb 18, 2022

BHuij said:
Can't speak for the owner of that 75mm f/3.5, but the 5 or so Isolettes I've encountered ALL had the green yak snot cement stuck on the front cell, and pinholes in the bellows. I made a new bellows for one and have unstuck a few of the lenses now haha. If you go into it expecting to refurbish the lens and replace the bellows, you can get really good deals on Isolettes with Agnars and Apotars, since they're frequently sold as "untested" or "not working/for parts" when all they need is a little love and a new bellows. The Solinar versions were for me a lot harder to find.

That said, the listing on eBay for the one I just ordered said that the camera is in good working condition and specifically that the bellows had "no tears." I'll believe that when I see it, but frankly I'm buying the camera for the lens, so I don't much care about the bellows. Listing didn't specifically say anything about the front cell, so I'm fully expecting it to be stuck when it arrives.

The Solinars was just sold less because most folder users where content with contact prints and only once in a rare while got anything enlarged.
And a triplet can be a superb lens.
I have several Solinars, because I chose to be picky. None of them really work. But they are not that rare close to bigger affluent cities. That's where people would have the money and the clout to buy the higher spec version. And often the cameras haven't moved since.

moggi1964 · Feb 18, 2022

Helge said:
Did you send it out or perform the service yourself?

I wonder if there is a way to spot the leather bellows from the "paper" ones?
Of the box of probably eight repair worthy Isolettes I have, only one is with leather bellows, and it's only visible by very close inspection. And that bellows like all other leather bellows that hasn't been abused or left open for years as bric-à-brac on a shelf is in perfect condition.

I sent it out for service to Newton Ellis in Liverpool, UK. They have serviced a few of my cameras.

Mine are definitely paper bellows and they look mint so it is possible that the original bellows and lens were replaced at some point hence the 75mm Solinar on an Isolette II.

Sometimes you DO get lucky on ebay

BHuij · Feb 18, 2022

Helge said:
The Solinars was just sold less because most folder users where content with contact prints and only once in a rare while got anything enlarged.
And a triplet can be a superb lens.

Yeah, like I said - in the testing I did of my Agnar, I was really impressed with the results. To be fair, I didn't enlarge them tremendously, just looked at some basic flatbed scans. But I was expecting the lens to be a real dog from the way it's described, and really as soon as I got to about f/5.6 or f/8 or thereabouts, it was plenty good enough that I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

AgX · Feb 18, 2022

Helge said:
Interesting. The Rietzschel Company seems to have been the original inventor and was absorbed by Agfa.
Strange that a German company would take a clearly English name. The usual seems to be Latin and/or Latin suffix “ar/nar” or something German.

I do not see "a clearly English name" at all.

Helge · Feb 18, 2022

AgX said:
I do not see "a clearly English name" at all.

Sorry, my German vocabulary failed me. Thought about “geradlinig”.

Then it’s actually an absolutely brilliant name.
Descriptive and works in multiple languages.

AgX · Feb 18, 2022

gradlinig and linear have same meaning, both are rooted in Latin, and both are german words

JPD · Feb 18, 2022

nosmok said:
Fun fact: the early versions of it were named "Solinear" for obvious eponymic reasons ("This lens is SO LINEAR!", he exclaimed).

I doubt that's the reason for the name. Rietzschel's top lens was the eight element Doppel-Anastigmat "Linear", and they also made the "Prolinear", "Telinear" and "Trilinear". The "Solinear" was their Tessar-type. I think the "Solinear" came late in Rietzschel's history, after the Tessar patent had expired. Not long before Agfa took over.

"Apotar" was also a Rietzschel lens, but as well as their "Sextar" similar to the Goerz "Dagor".

AgX · Feb 19, 2022

But there was a time in Germany when tradenames were composed by contracting words. Think of the american U-Haul, or the german Vileda. A Solinear name from "so linear" then makes sense.

JPD · Feb 21, 2022

AgX said:
But there was a time in Germany when tradenames were composed by contracting words. Think of the american U-Haul, or the german Vileda. A Solinear name from "so linear" then makes sense.

Yes, but since the other Rietzschel lens names were put together from latin and greek words, I think it's more likely that "Solinear" comes from "sol" and "linear".

binglebugbob · Feb 22, 2022

"Sol" for sun, with "ar" for tessar, but since Solar was in use by Burke & James, couldn't use Solar without tweaking it. Hence Solinear or solinar.
Well, it could be!

BHuij · Feb 23, 2022

Camera arrived yesterday. Lens focus was, amazingly, not stuck. Bellows were also free of pinholes. Both firsts for me.

The lens was dirty but cleaned up great. Shutter was gummy and sluggish. A little disassembly, flushing and cleaning with denatured alcohol, and a lot of exercise, and it’s working now. Every single speed is either 1 full stop or 1.3 stops slower than nominal, but consistent from firing to firing. So it’s a functional shutter but not stellar. I will be putting this lens into a different Compur Rapid I have that has nearly perfect speeds.

But first I’ll run one roll through this camera as-is. Seems like a shame to have a nice copy of a Jsolette with Solinar and not use it at least once. This camera body will get the Apotar lens I have, and most likely be sold at some point.

Really happy with it overall! Can’t wait to put this lens through its paces.

Finally snagged a Solinar

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