Finally serious about large format...

df cardwell · Aug 23, 2006

A big advantage of buying the lens that comes with the Crown ( assuming it hasn't been vandalised ) is the cam will match the lens to the rfdr.

A Crown rfdr is VERY accurate. Wide open, the 127 Ektar will easily resolve ( with the rfdr ) eyelashes at 6 feet. That focussing accuracy means you DON'T need a loop and darkcloth and all that stuff when you're out and about.

Nathan Smith · Aug 23, 2006

jnanian said:
for a 127 lens you might consider a 127 tominon.
people suggest they don't cover 4x5, but they do

You're right John, but she spoke of wanting lots of movement - the 127mm does a fine job on 4x5 but doesn't allow for a whole lot of movement. I really like the 127mm Ektar that came with my Speed, but they have their limits coverage-wise. Excellent main lens though, maybe just start off with that and pick up another lens when you feel like you need it.

Richard Kelham · Aug 23, 2006

An Ektar 203mm or a Xenar 150mm would be a good lens to start with, perhaps with an Angulon 90mm f6.8 (not the 'Super') all those can be picked up, with clean glass and working shutters, for less than GBP80. Don't suppose anyone would throw in a camera for free though!

B&J Press sounds like a good one to try. I use an MPP which is a poor man's Linhof Technika made in England 40-odd years ago. It is the basis of my cheapo landscape outfit camera, Angulon 90, Sironar 150mm, cloth, loupe, dark-slides (I already had the tripod and meter) which cost all told about GBP300 (~$500). I don't think I could have done it for much less.

Maybe you might have to reassess your budget or are things really so much less in the US? Anyway, good luck.

Richard

lee · Aug 23, 2006

Stephanie,

two hundred dollars is not near enough to be considered "serious" about Large format. You are kidding yourself with that for anything under $500. Stuff costs more. Plain and simple. You watch ebay. price it out.

lee\c

Stephanie Brim · Aug 23, 2006

I don't really need lots of movement. I just wondered if I could get something with MORE movement than a Graphic. If I can't then it's perfectly fine.

I inquired about a Crown Graphic on Ebay going for a reasonable price and I'll see if I can get that.

PhotoJim · Aug 23, 2006

Get what you can afford, and work your way up. Even without movements (and Crown/Speed Graphics do have some movements - front rise is the most important movement there is and you have lots of it on a Graphic), you still get 20 square inches of negative.

Get a 90/6.8 Angulon later (they are cheap and decent; I may have one for sale myself soon since I have a pair), and a 210-250 later. You will have a decent system.

Upgrade when you have the funds. In the meantime you'll get some great pictures.

df cardwell · Aug 23, 2006

More movement than a Crown ? If you want to do hyper-controlled Arizona Highways LF shooting, you need a big honking camera. If you want to shoot all that Iowa, Colorado, and the prairie in between, a Crown is more than enough.

raucousimages · Aug 23, 2006

I think $200.00 will be only enough to frustrate yourself. For that you might get a third rate camera and lens. I know others will violently disagree with me but show me a WORKING 4X5 with clean lens and accurate shutter on the market today. And by today I mean today, right now. And what about meter, film holders, proper tripod and case not to mention darkroom gear if you want to process and print yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for you going into LF but don't trip on the first step. $200.00 on crap is $200.00 wasted. You could use that toward good gear.

John

stompyq · Aug 23, 2006

raucousimages said:
I think $200.00 will be only enough to frustrate yourself. For that you might get a third rate camera and lens. I know others will violently disagree with me but show me a WORKING 4X5 with clean lens and accurate shutter on the market today. And by today I mean today, right now. And what about meter, film holders, proper tripod and case not to mention darkroom gear if you want to process and print yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for you going into LF but don't trip on the first step. $200.00 on crap is $200.00 wasted. You could use that toward good gear.

John

Unfortunatly i agree on this statement. I am a recent covert myself and have found the prices less than rosy. Wait a bit and collect some money, do some research and wait for a good deal. This is what i did and thus far have not been dissapointed.

Dan Fromm · Aug 23, 2006

John, you raised a good point. Even if the OP finds a decent Crown with a decent lens and a couple of film holders for $200 and is willing to shoot it hand-held, she'll have to have its little shutter overhauled. $60+.

And another. People here and elsewhere make big noises about how inexpensive equipment can be. I've made the occasional good snag myself. But in my experience, good snags are few and far between. The OP has previously manifested a slight lack of patience. I'm sure she can get a usable 4x5 camera with lens and a couple of holders for $200, but odds are doing so will take a good while.

Cheers,

Dan

BrianShaw · Aug 23, 2006

What about the car?

DBP · Aug 23, 2006

The B&J Press has a little more movement than the Graphics, as does the Busch Pressman, if memory serves. I use a B&J occasionally for shots the Anny Speed Graphic can't quite reach, mostly with a 90mm WA Raptar. But for landscapes I would think a Speed or Crown Graphic would have enough movement. If you don't mind giving up the Graflok back, an Anny is sturdy, easy to use, and cheap. Lens board can be made easily, or bought cheaply. And the rear shutter lets you experiment with barrel lenses, which again can save significant dollars. Will it do everything you might want to do in LF, no. But you can do a lot with it, and then decide whether to invest in moving up.

wfwhitaker · Aug 23, 2006

Why large format?

donbga · Aug 23, 2006

Roger Hicks said:
On a very tight budget, roughly zero. Remember though that 90mm on 5x7 has about the same coverage as 65mm on 4x5 inch. If you can find an old 121/8 Super Angulon, that will be much like a 90 in coverage AND will give you modest movement. I sold my last one to a friend for a couple of hundred dollars.

A 75mm on 4x5 is about like 105mm on 5x7 inch.

Other, older lenses can sometimes be very cheap but ultrawides are rare and (do not forget) extremely hard to focus.

Give it some more thought, though... And I'm sure Freestyle with either take cheques/checks or set up an account.

Cheers,

R.

A 90 mm f/8 Schnieder S.A. will cover 5x7 with a recessed lens board, though with not much movement.

Stephanie Brim · Aug 23, 2006

Someone has an Anniversary Speed Graphic up on Ebay for a really nice price. I may try and get that. Dunno yet, though.

I just want something for starting out and something that can take nice photos of mountains and everything in between. I don't really need that many movements for what I'm wanting to do *right this second*.

Jim Jones · Aug 24, 2006

A Crown or Pacemaker is a worthwhile advance over an Anniversary. The lack of tilts and practical infinity stops is a handicap on the Anniversary. However, I still use one in addition to several other LF cameras. Many parts are interchangable between the Anniversary and the Pacemaker models. I've upgraded an Anniversary with a Pacemaker front standard and rails. It overcomes some, but not all, of the Anniversary's shortcoming. Even the unaltered Aniversary will suffice for most 4x5 photography. If you start with one, you can upgrade later with the advantage of LF experience. The back shutter on the Anniversary, and the simple lens board, make using quite inexpensive lenses practical.

Stephanie Brim · Aug 24, 2006

Since I've decided to possibly wait until the end of September for purchase, I have a good amount of time to make a decision. I'm starting to look more at Pacemaker Crowns, but I really like the Anniversary Speed Graphic. Do I really need something better than that to start out with?

Stephanie Brim · Aug 24, 2006

Anyway, I've heard from a friend at work that he may have a large format camera that belonged to his dad in working condition with lenses. If that's the case, I could borrow or buy that one from him for much less than I could get one on Ebay. I'd use the hell out of it, that I know. He said that his dad took photos in the Vietnam war with it...I'd seriously love the camera even if it isn't a Graflex.

DBP · Aug 24, 2006

You don't need something better than an Anny to start out. It was the top photojournalist camera for years. Many great photos have been taken with one, including the late Joe Rosenthal's Iwo Jima photo.

If an American photographer was using a 4x5 in the Vietnam War, odds are pretty good it was a Graflex. And I love shooting with a camera with a known history.

Stephanie Brim · Aug 24, 2006

If he'll sell it to me, and he may not for sentimental reasons (don't really know), I'll take it. I also love shooting with a camera with a history. It just feels good to me.

David H. Bebbington · Aug 24, 2006

You are obviously driven by intuition! Just be aware that there are an awful lot of near-mint Crown Graphics out there, that the Anniversary Graphics date from 1947 or earlier, and that a Graphic used in Vietnam may well be a Combat Graphic, which is a rare and expensive collectable model even if heavily beaten up (which it is likely to be).

Regards,

David

Stephanie Brim · Aug 24, 2006

If it is I'll likely get a bargain and use it well.

I don't collect cameras. I buy them to be used. If they sit too long without use I tend to get rid of them at the price I got them for or very close to it. Someone else would be on the receiving end of a bargain if I ever had reason to get rid of the thing.

Jim Jones · Aug 24, 2006

Stephanie Brim said:
Anyway, I've heard from a friend at work that he may have a large format camera that belonged to his dad in working condition with lenses. If that's the case, I could borrow or buy that one from him . . .

If you can borrow it, Wonderful! Having hands-on experience before spending much money makes you a wiser buyer. If you go the Graphic route, consider buying or borrowing a copy of Graphic Graflex Photography by Willard D. Morgan and Henry M. Lester. It was published over many years in several editions. The 8th edition of 1947, unlike prevcious editions, covers the early side rangefinder Pacemaker and Crown Graphics. This book sometimes brings good money from LF photographers on ebay. Also search for it on the on-line booksellers like ABE Books. My 8th edition has articles by some of the great experts of the time, such as Rudolf Kingslake on lenses, Ansel Adams on printing, Laura Gilpin on portraits, Bernice Abott on composition, John Carroll on view camera technique, and Barbara Morgan on dance. You'd better hurry, though. There might be a few APUGers who weren't aware of this treasure competing for it now.

Neanderman · Aug 28, 2006

Stephanie, I shot for years with a beater Crown Graphic (that was given to me) that I turned the front standard around on so I could do front forward tilts. That, along with the rise, are virtually the only movements I ever use in the field. (But I don't shoot closeup, where more movements might be needed to get better DOF.) I started out with a Wollensak 127mm (equiv to the Ektar) and later graduated to a Fuji 135. As a starter set, you really can't beat it.

Ed

Ole · Aug 29, 2006

My first (and my second too, incidentally) LF camera was a 5x7" Linhof Technika. I bought it because it was available locally. After those I bought a Linhof Color, a very basic monorail. I can remember only one instance where that camera didn't have enough movements to allow me to take the picture I wanted.

Now I have a Gandolfi Traditional 5x7" (expensive), a 4x5" Carbon infinity (even more expensive, but a wonderful camera), several German plate cameras from 13x18cm (just about 5x7") to 24x30cm (around 9.5x12") - all very solid and dirt cheap - and a 4x5" pre-anniversary Speed Graphic.

The one I would recommend for a beginner is the Linhof Color! Or any other cheap, basic monorail for that matter: They give the most "LF experience" for the least amount of money. The downside is that they tend to be bulkier and less portable than "field cameras", though both of mine (the Color and the CI) are exceptions to that rule.

Get a camera with front and back tilts, and at least front or back swing. If your budget doesn't stretch to this, wait until it does.

Finally serious about large format...

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