Filter flourescent tube for use as safelight

Siompa · Oct 2, 2017

Hey everyone!

I wonder if it would be possible to filter a fluorescent tube with full red Rosco filters to use it as safe light in darkroom

http://us.rosco.com/en/products/catalog/roscolux

Is it anything else that comes into play except the actual color of the light?

I could certainly try it out with a piece of paper for 10 minutes. But if anyone had an answer i would not waste time if it's a big Nono

Doremus Scudder · Oct 2, 2017

Someone used to make tubular sleeve safelight filters for fluorescent lights. I don't know if these are available anymore, but it might be worth a search. In principle, as long as your filter is effectively eliminating any wavelengths but safe ones, you shouldn't have to worry about the spectrum of the light source. In practice, a bright light source that emits very little energy in the "safe" bandwidth will end up being pretty dim with a good filter or a not-so-efficient filter may transmit some unsafe light due to its imperfect transmission spectrum. Rosco filters may work fine, but do a safelight test as detailed here to make sure http://www.kodak.com/KodakGCG/uploa..._motion_products_filter_K4_Safelight_1106.pdf

Best,

Doremus

Rick A · Oct 2, 2017

A quick google search, and......
https://www.encapsulite.com/fluores...iO2k6MDtzOjE1OiJleHRlbmRlZGxpc3RpbmciO2k6MDt9

oh, and this
http://supplies.merryxray.com/safelights-bulbs-filters.html

Ian Grant · Oct 2, 2017

One comment fluorescent tubes are becoming less common as large scale users are replacing them with the equivalent LED fittings, they will be phased out. LED costs have dropped very significantly and they are very significantly longer lasting as well as being a fraction of the cost to run, the one major disadvantage of fluorescents is high maintenance costs. OK less important on a one off basis but I'm replacing all my fluorescents as/when I need to change starters or tubes. The next I'll replace will be the standard 48" fluorescent strip light in my darkroom mainly because it's not instant and they glow for a while after switching off, I have spot-lights as well covering the main work areas, fixer trays etc.

Once my supply of 15W Pygmy a dn 25w bulbs runs out all my safe-lights will have the equivalent LEDs. Personally I'd be asking EncapSulite if they have sleeves suitable for LED tubes in your situation.

Ian

tedr1 · Oct 2, 2017

I find red is not comfortable on the eye, the amber safelight is preferable.

Siompa · Oct 3, 2017

Doremus Scudder said:
Someone used to make tubular sleeve safelight filters for fluorescent lights. I don't know if these are available anymore, but it might be worth a search. In principle, as long as your filter is effectively eliminating any wavelengths but safe ones, you shouldn't have to worry about the spectrum of the light source. In practice, a bright light source that emits very little energy in the "safe" bandwidth will end up being pretty dim with a good filter or a not-so-efficient filter may transmit some unsafe light due to its imperfect transmission spectrum. Rosco filters may work fine, but do a safelight test as detailed here to make sure http://www.kodak.com/KodakGCG/uploa..._motion_products_filter_K4_Safelight_1106.pdf

Best,

Doremus

Thank you for that link!

Rick A said:
A quick google search, and......
https://www.encapsulite.com/fluores...iO2k6MDtzOjE1OiJleHRlbmRlZGxpc3RpbmciO2k6MDt9

oh, and this
http://supplies.merryxray.com/safelights-bulbs-filters.html

Thanks, I saw something like that as well the thing is I share a darkroom with a cinematographer who has shitloads of filters so that would be the cheaper way to go.

Ian Grant said:
One comment fluorescent tubes are becoming less common as large scale users are replacing them with the equivalent LED fittings, they will be phased out. LED costs have dropped very significantly and they are very significantly longer lasting as well as being a fraction of the cost to run, the one major disadvantage of fluorescents is high maintenance costs. OK less important on a one off basis but I'm replacing all my fluorescents as/when I need to change starters or tubes. The next I'll replace will be the standard 48" fluorescent strip light in my darkroom mainly because it's not instant and they glow for a while after switching off, I have spot-lights as well covering the main work areas, fixer trays etc.

Once my supply of 15W Pygmy a dn 25w bulbs runs out all my safe-lights will have the equivalent LEDs. Personally I'd be asking EncapSulite if they have sleeves suitable for LED tubes in your situation.

Ian

Thats a good point, I'll look that up as well

Thanks for your answers! Will give it a try in the upcoming weeks and see how it goes.

CMoore · Oct 3, 2017

As i bought the "Stuff" i needed to make my darkroom, i ended up with several different Safe-Lights...including a Thomas-Duplex.
I had installed an outlet on my ceiling, for the Thomas........what did i end up using.?
These.......
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...bulb-8-smd-led-globe-bulb/440/#/attributes/13

They are only 3 bux each, they put out quite a bit of light for their small size, and they generate Very Little heat. They fit a Standard Light Socket. I bought 5 of them.
I purchased those "Old" plug-in light sockets.
You can plug them into Any Outlet, and then screw the Red LED into that. You can just about put these things anywhere with ease.
I have 2 on the ceiling, where i WAS going to hang the Thomas.....and then over by the sink, on a typical power strip, i have one more to light the Sink/Developing area.
My darkroom is not very big, just a converted bedroom.....but these 3 little, lights do a fine job of illuminating a 10x15 room.
And they are small.....like a bulb you would put in a refrigerator or some other small appliance.

Not trying to talk you out of your present plan. I do not know, these May Not work out for you.......just tossing out the possibility.
good luck

Ian Grant · Oct 3, 2017

One comment is safe-lights aren't universal, I need to use 3 different types, the main VC (OC/902) amber for use with Multigrade and fixed grade papers, a 906 dark ruby red for Harman Direct Positive paper an a 10 or 10H (908) for RA-4 paper, very dark green and used only to illuminate the stop clock. As well as those three I also have SL1 (orange) no longer used as the VC/)C/902 is better, and 1a (900) light red for use with lith films, I have other filters as well to fit my three Kodak Bee-hive safe-lights.

So you need to think of all possibilities, one safe-light is an option if you can change the filters or are only using VC or fixed grade papers.

Ian

M Carter · Oct 3, 2017

CMoore said:
These.......
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...bulb-8-smd-led-globe-bulb/440/#/attributes/13

I have three or four of those and they're fantastic. My darkroom is bright as day it seems. I overliad their spectrum on an ilford MG spectrum and there's no overlap. I have found they fog some really old RC paper I have though.

Ian Grant said:
One comment is safe-lights aren't universal, I need to use 3 different types, the main VC (OC/902) amber for use with Multigrade and fixed grade papers, a 906 dark ruby red for Harman Direct Positive paper an a 10 or 10H (908) for RA-4 paper, very dark green and used only to illuminate the stop clock.

I've gone all-red with no issues, since I started using ortho-lith film (FOMA emulsion which requires a red safelight as I recall). I do mostly lith printing, with very long exposure and development times, and the red LED light blasting right at the tray - no fogging at all, no issues in the last 2 years. I generally am using discontinues papers, Ilford MGWT, and ortho films for masking - and liquid emulsion. None of my materials have fogging problems, not yet anyway.

darkroommike · Oct 3, 2017

Rosco makes sleeves to fit tubes and black end caps but it all seems a bother since the gels will fade with time. If you are just setting out look to LED. Or if you can pick up Kodak or Ilford fixtures cheaply with good filters go that route. I was lucky enough to score a Thomas safe light for $45 USD and have a bulb I found for a song. It's another very workable solution.

Patrick Robert James · Oct 3, 2017

I've posted this before here, but a red LED/fluorescent with rubylith covering it works great. Don't completely trust that the red lights won't put out any level of other wavelengths, which will be filtered by the rubylith.

Siompa · Oct 3, 2017

CMoore said:
As i bought the "Stuff" i needed to make my darkroom, i ended up with several different Safe-Lights...including a Thomas-Duplex.
I had installed an outlet on my ceiling, for the Thomas........what did i end up using.?
These.......
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...bulb-8-smd-led-globe-bulb/440/#/attributes/13

They are only 3 bux each, they put out quite a bit of light for their small size, and they generate Very Little heat. They fit a Standard Light Socket. I bought 5 of them.
I purchased those "Old" plug-in light sockets.
You can plug them into Any Outlet, and then screw the Red LED into that. You can just about put these things anywhere with ease.
I have 2 on the ceiling, where i WAS going to hang the Thomas.....and then over by the sink, on a typical power strip, i have one more to light the Sink/Developing area.
My darkroom is not very big, just a converted bedroom.....but these 3 little, lights do a fine job of illuminating a 10x15 room.
And they are small.....like a bulb you would put in a refrigerator or some other small appliance.

Not trying to talk you out of your present plan. I do not know, these May Not work out for you.......just tossing out the possibility.
good luck

So you are using these as is, with no filters?

I did a successful test today, I went with 2 layers of rosco light red and 2 layers of amber and taped the ends with black electrical tape. Put a ilford paper on the bench closes to the fixture for 12 minutes. Developed and fixed and couldn't see anything other than white paper, so I guess no fogging?

So great to have a bright darkroom

adelorenzo · Oct 3, 2017

Siompa said:
I did a successful test today, I went with 2 layers of rosco light red and 2 layers of amber and taped the ends with black electrical tape. Put a ilford paper on the bench closes to the fixture for 12 minutes. Developed and fixed and couldn't see anything other than white paper, so I guess no fogging?

You need to do a white light exposure with the paper first, then you test the safelight to see if it adds any fog. Try this:

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/testing-your-safelights/

MattKing · Oct 3, 2017

Or if you are really careful, you do the Kodak safelight test - white light exposure before, and white light after: http://wwwca.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/k4/k4TestSafelite.shtml#BW
(Caution: I don't know how long that link will remain available)
Here is an independent link to a pdf version: http://real-photographs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kodak_safelights001.pdf

CMoore · Oct 3, 2017

Siompa said:
So you are using these as is, with no filters?

I did a successful test today, I went with 2 layers of rosco light red and 2 layers of amber and taped the ends with black electrical tape. Put a ilford paper on the bench closes to the fixture for 12 minutes. Developed and fixed and couldn't see anything other than white paper, so I guess no fogging?

So great to have a bright darkroom

Right, i just screw them in and use right from the box.
I could be way Off-Base, but......i would be more worried about using my Thomas-Duplex with the amber light (Red Filters Up) than i would with these Red LED.......

Siompa · Oct 3, 2017

adelorenzo said:
You need to do a white light exposure with the paper first, then you test the safelight to see if it adds any fog. Try this:

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/testing-your-safelights/

MattKing said:
Or if you are really careful, you do the Kodak safelight test - white light exposure before, and white light after: http://wwwca.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/k4/k4TestSafelite.shtml#BW
(Caution: I don't know how long that link will remain available)
Here is an independent link to a pdf version: http://real-photographs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/kodak_safelights001.pdf

Thanks for this, will try the next time I'm there

mgb74 · Oct 4, 2017

This may be "old news" to the OP, but your fluorescent bulbs continue to emit an "afterglow" after being shut off. So best to leave them off for a few minutes before allowing any film to be exposed. Some argue that the glow is too weak to fog film, and perhaps that's true, but I'd err on the side of caution.

Siompa · Oct 12, 2017

adelorenzo said:
You need to do a white light exposure with the paper first, then you test the safelight to see if it adds any fog. Try this:

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/testing-your-safelights/

Did this today and saw a very very slight increase of exposure after 10 minutes, nothing at all at the 5 minute mark so I’ll call it safe enough.

Thanks for the help!

mpirie · Oct 12, 2017

I use a fluorescent safelight too. It's made by encapsulite and they are becoming scarce, ezspecially in the UK......shipping is also a problem.

I also have a nornal tube covered in rubylith which should serve as a backup.

Mike

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 12, 2017

Siompa said:
Hey everyone!

I wonder if it would be possible to filter a fluorescent tube with full red Rosco filters to use it as safe light in darkroom

http://us.rosco.com/en/products/catalog/roscolux

Is it anything else that comes into play except the actual color of the light?

I could certainly try it out with a piece of paper for 10 minutes. But if anyone had an answer i would not waste time if it's a big Nono

I got a string of cheap orange lights shipped directly from China on Ebay for $5 as safelights. There are also red ones that will work too.

Filter flourescent tube for use as safelight

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