Film Washing Question w/o hca

I up until now use Ilford rapid fixer, no hca, and use the ilford fill and invert wash technique 1x, 5x, 10x, 20x. Well, I used Kodak Fixer (not rapid) the other day for some 35mm PX. I used my regular wash technique. Then I was told (after the fact obviously) that fixers with hardeners had to have hca or a much longer wash. I was not aware of this. Ugh. Not having HCA, I rewashed all the film for 20min in a running bath, re photo-flod, and hung to dry.

For those with exp, do you feel this is adequate? I really don't care if the film lasts 200 years. But I'll be bummed if it starts to fall apart in 10.

Thanks for the advice.

I would just use Heico PermaWash and forget about it. It is cheap, liquid concentrate, easy to mix (3 oz per 64 oz working solution) and saves alot of time and water.

GraemeMitchell said:

I up until now use Ilford rapid fixer, no hca, and use the ilford fill and invert wash technique 1x, 5x, 10x, 20x. Well, I used Kodak Fixer (not rapid) the other day for some 35mm PX. I used my regular wash technique. Then I was told (after the fact obviously) that fixers with hardeners had to have hca or a much longer wash. I was not aware of this. Ugh. Not having HCA, I rewashed all the film for 20min in a running bath, re photo-flod, and hung to dry.

For those with exp, do you feel this is adequate? I really don't care if the film lasts 200 years. But I'll be bummed if it starts to fall apart in 10.

Thanks for the advice.

Click to expand...

What you did should be adequate. Compared to FB paper, fixer washes out of film easily. Your use of a hardener with PX film was not necessary but should not be detrimental, especially if you used fresh fixer.

There are a lot of APUG threads on film and paper fixing and washing.

It is important to remember that washing fixer out of film and FB paper can be done efficiently by soaking and dumping. Running water is not necessary.

APUG and/or Google Search for the Ilford washing procedure.

Tom, that's the little bit of assurance I was looking for. I searched around, but couldn't really find any specific times on wash/soak for film with a hardening fixer sans hca.

I originally picked up the Kodak Fixer b/c someone told me it had less odor than Ilford Rapid Fix, which was true, but, as I said, I never new HCA was kind of a must with the hardener variable.

I'm going to try TF-4 next. Basically I'm looking for a not so smelly rapid fixer that washes fast. It's a living situation/space/roomate issue. I need to keep things minimal on all fronts.

On the plus side. The PX, shot in open shade, in D-76 1+1 for 8:15 is gorgeous.

Graeme, Try the Zonal Pro EC Rapid Fixer, 3 minutes when diluted 1+6 and is very easy on the nose.
btw, i have never used anything but water to wash my film and i don't see any degradation on 25 year old negatives. Do use running water though.

Happy Thanksgiving.

jan

GraemeMitchell said:

Tom, that's the little bit of assurance I was looking for. I searched around, but couldn't really find any specific times on wash/soak for film with a hardening fixer sans hca.

I originally picked up the Kodak Fixer b/c someone told me it had less odor than Ilford Rapid Fix, which was true, but, as I said, I never new HCA was kind of a must with the hardener variable.

I'm going to try TF-4 next. Basically I'm looking for a not so smelly rapid fixer that washes fast. It's a living situation/space/roomate issue. I need to keep things minimal on all fronts.

On the plus side. The PX, shot in open shade, in D-76 1+1 for 8:15 is gorgeous.

Click to expand...

TF-4 works well, but it produces a strong odor of ammonia. I prefer Apugger Ryuji Suzuki's buffered alkaline fixer, it fixes quickly, washes out quickly and easily and and it doesn't stink. See:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/store/cart/catalog/Silvergrain-Clearfix-Alkaline-Fixer-32-oz-p-189.html

GraemeMitchell said:

I'm going to try TF-4 next. Basically I'm looking for a
not so smelly rapid fixer that washes fast. It's a living situation/space/roomate issue. I need to keep things
minimal on all fronts.

Click to expand...

I too am a minimalist. For film, develop - fix - wash.
Water stop or no, your choice. If you are off to Photo
Formulary for TF-4 you may wish to consider a pound
each of Sodium Thiosulfate anhydrous and Sodium
Sulfite. A moderately alkaline, no odor, Plain fixer,
results from a mix of the two. The two
ingredients have very long shelf life.

To use spoon up a fresh fix using 16 grams of the
Thio. and give or take a tenth that much of the sulfite.
If you would like to go all-out minimal I'm quite sure the
sulfite could be omitted. Actually Steve Anchell's basic
fix is no more than sodium thiosulfate.

Not a rapid fix though; maybe 12 minutes of intermittent.
Then again when finished so also is the fix. Need not be
stored then later tested for remaining capacity.

I've not tested for the amounts of chemistry needed
with the T and D films. With those and very silvered high
speed films some additional amount of chemistry may be
called for. If you go low add a little more chemistry to
finish and make note. Dan

If it's no odor you want look no further than KODAK FLEXICOLOR Fixer and Replenisher. Yes, it is for the C-41 process, but it works for B&W just as well. It has almost no odor, is of almost netral ph (at working strength the ph is 6.5, ph 7.0 is neutral) works fast, lasts long, washes out quickly, and is really cheap. Enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of working solution can be had from B&H for about $8 US + shipping. I've tried all kinds of fixers, and this stuff is the best value for money to be had.

To add to Dan's advice: Adding a couple of teaspoons of ammonium chloride to such a "basic fixer" will increase the activity and ensure good fixing of "fancy-grain emulsions".

That's really what my OF-1 is - a simple slightly alkaline fixer with added ammonium chloride. And a lot less smelly than TF-4 (I can't stand ammonia smell!).