Film too thin to roll

Minox · Mar 27, 2023

Svema 400 negative is so thin, that I cannot roll it on the dev reel to process. It simply slips the reel grooves, because it does not have that rigidity to stay put within the said grooves. No matter what I do, it simply slides off the rails and, to be honest, so do I. Tried it on Paterson, tried it on Jobo, no joy.

It's so thin, about half the thickness of Agfa 100, roughly. I handled various film negatives in the last 20 or so yrs, but this thin...never. Ridiculous!

Anyways, anyone had/has the same situation with very thin negatives ? How did you handled it (if you didn't threw it in the rubbish bin, that is) ?

Appreciated !

MattKing · Mar 27, 2023

A Kodak developing apron and tank might work.
Stainless steel reels with a clip at the centre as well.

xkaes · Mar 27, 2023

Microfilm is so thin it has the same problem -- but thinness as a "problem" varies with the width of the film you are using (not so big a deal for 16mm 110), and the reels (plastic vs metal) you are using.

What size film are you talking about and what developing gear?

Don_ih · Mar 27, 2023

If it's just one roll, you can develop it by hand in the dark, see-saw style. It's irritating but not impossible.

Minox · Mar 27, 2023

The film is 35mm, the tanks available are Paterson and Jobo 1510, both with the usual, plastic reels. I do not have any steel ones, never liked them.

Don_ih · Mar 27, 2023

If you get it started on the reel, you might be able to feed it all in without it slipping off (the curve should keep it there). Maybe if you put a piece of masking tape on the start of the film to thicken it a bit? When loading 120, I sometimes crease the first cm of the film to get it to be rigid enough to feed into both sides of the reel. (Other people load the tape edge first)

Patrick Robert James · Mar 27, 2023

You could try loading the film inside out, emulsion facing out. Sometimes that adds some tension to it.

pentaxuser · Mar 27, 2023

Don Heisz said:
If you get it started on the reel, you might be able to feed it all in without it slipping off (the curve should keep it there). Maybe if you put a piece of masking tape on the start of the film to thicken it a bit? When loading 120, I sometimes crease the first cm of the film to get it to be rigid enough to feed into both sides of the reel. (Other people load the tape edge first)

Yes I'd have thought that if you feed the film onto the reel and then hold the film until you push more of it onto the reel the curvature and amount of film on the reel eliminates any chance of it slipping off

pentaxuser

bluechromis · Mar 27, 2023

Someone protested that they almost lost their mind trying to load Rollei IR 400 onto reels because it was so thin. It may be they ultimately lost their mind because they never posted again and are now pushing a shopping cart in an underpass while muttering MACO conspiracy theories.

There are pros and cons to steel versus plastic reels/tanks. But in terms of ease of loading, plastic wins hands down. You need the reels with a wide lead-in lip. Because 35 mm has a long, unusable leader, you can start feeding the film into the spool in daylight. Yes, really. Then turn out the lights and wind it in all the way. Doing it this way is foolproof regardless of the film used.

cmacd123 · Mar 27, 2023

I have used the 1500 Jobo reels, BUT have to use the "rock back and forth" method, rather than my usual shove in 6 inches at a time from the end method. Yes, the film is as thin as any I have handled, and I worked doing Microfilming for about a decade. it DOES work. reels have to be totally clan and totally dry. Once it is developed , it also takes a bit of finese to get it into the Print-File Pages.

albada · Mar 27, 2023

To avoid scratching film, the pressure plates on cameras are shifted back by slightly more than the standard thickness of 35mm film, which is 0.14-0.15 mm (0.14 in wikipedia; 0.15 according to my measurements). Thus, if the film is too thin, the emulsion will be slightly farther away from the lens, defocusing the image slightly. If the film is half the standard thickness, the rearward shift will be about 0.07 mm, which might or might not be observable when the lens is wide open. In any case, I regard such a nonstandard thickness as inexcusable. Although if you are bulk loading, half thickness would let you get 72 full-frame shots on one roll.

As for loading such film onto a reel, I agree with prior posters: A Kodacraft tank with aprons or an SS reel are probably your best (or only) options.

Mark

Minox · Mar 28, 2023

Thank you guys for all your replies, much appreciated! I will try again, and I believe tape onto the leader is not a bad idea, it should probably help this blasted film get onto the reel. SS reel and apron are both out of question, mainly because I do not have either.

I'll get back when I deal with it. Again, thank you all for your good advices!

MattKing · Mar 28, 2023

The see-saw method helped build my character - when I was 11 years old!
You might benefit from constructing a "loading ramp" into the entrance of the reel using a thin card cut to size and then temporarily inserted. Then, as best as you can, pull - rather than push - the film into and around the channels as far as is practical. Getting the film started straight is certainly important.
One other Zen sort of thing. It is particularly important to hold the reel sides with the lightest of touches - at your fingertips if possible.
Struggling brings stress which causes you to grab the reel hard which in turn causes the reel to bind which adds more struggle nd stress, etc.

Craig · Mar 28, 2023

Rather than being thin, I wonder if the film is slightly narrow? There is a little bit of movement between the reel halves, have you tried pushing (gently) the halves together while trying to spool the film?

I also use my fingers to hold the film in place when doing the see saw motion, so my fingers move the film with the reel half that is moving, then release and use the other hand etc. Then rather than relying on the little balls to hold the film, it is my fingers that are holding the film and advancing it into the reel..

Daniela · Mar 28, 2023

What about taping a few cms of another leftover film to help the Svema ease into the reels more easily?
Good luck, OP!

Minox · Mar 28, 2023

Daniela said:
What about taping a few cms of another leftover film to help the Svema ease into the reels more easily?
Good luck, OP!

That is a good advice, Daniela. Will try this, and see how it goes. Thank you !

Don_ih · Mar 28, 2023

Everyone needs one of these:

(see Photo Memorabilia)

pentaxuser · Mar 28, 2023

bluechromis said:
Someone protested that they almost lost their mind trying to load Rollei IR 400 onto reels because it was so thin. It may be they ultimately lost their mind because they never posted again and are now pushing a shopping cart in an underpass while muttering MACO conspiracy theories.

pentaxuser

Minox · Mar 28, 2023

Don Heisz said:
Everyone needs one of these:

View attachment 333958

(see Photo Memorabilia)

Never seen this before, I didnt even knew it existed. Good to know, one never know when it may be needed . Thank you !

Film too thin to roll

Minox

MattKing

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xkaes

Don_ih

Minox

Don_ih

Patrick Robert James

pentaxuser

bluechromis

cmacd123

albada

Minox

MattKing

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Craig

Daniela

Minox

Don_ih

pentaxuser

Minox

Film too thin to roll

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