Film to monitor.

[BrianShaw]

See what I mean? LOL. Good night, dear.

 

[AgX]

Yes, we exchanged meanwhile all kinds of accusations, pointed at various sides of the triple-forum issues, at zealots and liberals.

Why not we all take a deep breath now, listen to this
https://bit.ly/3u3DXuJ


and let end this thread finally?

 

[BrianShaw]

THREAD CLOSED TO FURTHER COMMENTS.

 

[removed account4]

and let end this thread finally?

not sure this can happen without an intervention ...

 

[BrianShaw]

THREAD CLOSED TO FURTHER COMMENTS.

intervention ...

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Boy there is a lot of over-thinking going on here,

Let me make this perfectly clear; I find it most annoying to have a great pinhole print in hand, only have it look second rate when posted to this board.

I discovered a method to overcome this loss of fidelity. My intent was simply to pass this information to the people on this board.

Disseminating knowledge to like minded folk is called spreading tribal knowledge, Open a dictionary and look it up.

I did not know, nor do I really care if Photrio has other forums, my interest is pinhole photography. If this post belongs some place else let the moderators move it, but I doubt it will reach its intended audience,

 

[MattKing]

I find it most annoying to have a great pinhole print in hand, only have it look second rate when posted to this board.

Were either of your first two examples scans of prints?

 

[BrianShaw]

but I doubt it will reach its intended audience,

It was received. Probably useful beyond pinhole... maybe even other alt process work too. Thank you!

 

[markjwyatt]

Ok. I don't know why I am responding to it, but I often see these issues, and they are real, and makes it difficult to efficiently discuss ideas in the real world sometimes. But. let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Grandpa Ron had a valid point to make. He could have gone to the Hybrid forum and posted it, BUT few of the intended recipients would likely have seen it because many block Hybrid/Digital discussions. Grandpa should have posted in the Hybrid section, THEN came to the analog and posted that he posted a thread relevant to improving the digital reproduction of pinhole images in the Hybrid section (so as not to offend the sensibility of analogers). He could even post a brief summary of his findings, but direct others to the Hybrid thread for further discussion. The Analog users can then make a conscious decision whether it is worth turning on access to Hybrid, even temporarily, especially if they were looking for solutions to improving the digital reproduction of pinhole images. This would serve at least three purposes

1. Get's Grandpa Rons relevant message to those to whom it is relevant
2. Keep discussions within the framework of Photrio
3. May open the minds of some additional analogers to their being some need to the usefulness of hybrid discussions

Maybe the OPs could add a tunneling functionality. E.g., someone in an analog forum posts a link to a relevant Hybrid discussion, with appropriate all caps warnings (WARNING THIS THREAD MAY LEAD TO DIGITIZATION DISCUSSIONS), and that link would bypass the no-HYBRID filter (since it originated in an analog forum) for that particular thread (i.e., allows analog users to "tunnel" into a hybrid discussion relevant to them without reversing the general no-HYBRID filter). There could be a simple option for admins to close the tunnel in a given thread if it is seen as abusing the purpose of the tunnel.

 

[grat]

It would be a feature request for Sean, but the idea of being able to tag a thread as "hybrid" might alleviate a great deal of consternation. Those who really, really don't want to hear anything about bytes and bits, can just auto-disable all "hybrid" tagged posts.

As has been pointed out by a few others, pinhole photography poses unique challenges when digitizing-- the pinhole forum would be a good place to discuss such things.

At the same time, I understand the concern that digital will continue to pervade, and some people are opposed to that.

 

[MattKing]

First: I really wanted to both express appreciation for Grandpa Ron's efforts;
Second: I really wanted to talk about his methods - with the hope that I could help;
Third: I value the organization of this site, and how well it protects the interests of those who want to discuss purely analog issues;
Fourth: I valued all the above so much I went to the effort of both asking Grandpa Ron if I could start a thread about his post in the sub-forum it belonged in, and actually doing so.
I think keeping things organized on Photrio is valuable and makes sense.
And I think housekeeping issues like that should be both easier and less controversial.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Well, as I mentioned previously, "No good deed goes unpunished". So I guess we have come full circle on this subject.

Even if I knew there was a Hybrid forum, I certainly would have not have associated it with the Pinhole Forum. So, that was my error.

I think that most folks scan their pinhole photos to their computer, then upload the photos to the pinhole forum with the upload image button. I thought my use of my camera instead of my scanner, was a clever idea worth passing on to the group, Logic dictates that once scanned, it is a digital photo.

I also believe an analog negative or positive is always analog, digitizing a duplicate does not change that. It is true that it digitizing lends itself to post processing; but then it is no longer a true pinhole photo.

I will close by saying, I am sure there are others who do not share my opinion, but at my age, they are at he end of a very long list.

Take care and enjoy the hobby,

 

[AgX]

Those who really, really don't want to hear anything about bytes and bits, can just auto-disable all "hybrid" tagged posts.

No, that does not work well.

A lot of plain analog threads are labelled "hybrid".
For instance a discussion of an AE-1... likely as such camera can be applied in a hybrid workflow.
I only realized this nonsense, when accidentally looking at threads listing yet unfiltered and realizing how many analog threads I was missing by only enabling "analog" in the setting.

 

[BrianShaw]

Maybe you should turn on all 3 categories. It’s not like there is much in either ‘hybrid’ or ‘digital anyway, and it’s not like you’ll go blind or have a stroke if you see a few... is it?

 

[grat]

No, that does not work well.

A lot of plain analog threads are labelled "hybrid".
For instance a discussion of an AE-1... likely as such camera can be applied in a hybrid workflow.
I only realized this nonsense, when accidentally looking at threads listing yet unfiltered and realizing how many analog threads I was missing by only enabling "analog" in the setting.

The functionality I'm referring to doesn't exist in this forum at the moment, so it's hard to say it doesn't work.

I'm suggesting we eliminate the "analog", "digital" and "hybrid" barriers (for the most part), and when someone posts in the "Pinhole" forum, for example, they can tag their post as "Contains Digital Content". Or, if the thread drifts into a hybrid / digital direction, it can be flagged as "Contains Bytes", and can easily be avoided by people preferring analog only.

At the moment, the options are "see analog / digital / hybrid" forums or "don't see analog / digital / hybrid" forums-- I'm proposing moving the filter from the Forum level to the Thread level-- and I'll be honest, I don't know if this forum software supports such an idea or not.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Rules are rules. They are there for a reason.

what’s that saying? “Without rules, we might as well be sitting up in trees flinging crap at each other.”

of course, sometimes it feels like that is exactly what is happening.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

what’s that saying? “Without rules, we might as well be sitting up in trees flinging crap at each other.”

of course, sometimes it feels like that is exactly what is happening.

I'm saying, rules are in place for a reason.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

 

[removed account4]

I'm saying, rules are in place for a reason.

+1

 

[grat]

I'm saying, rules are in place for a reason.

Sure. Where I live, until relatively recently (last 10-15 years), it was a law that if you drove at night, someone had to walk in front of your car with a lantern. Probably made sense when it was passed before the invention of the headlight-- not so much now. Strangely, it hasn't really been enforced for some time.

I don't mind rules, especially when they benefit the community, and as a former BBS operator (a very, very long time ago on dial-up), forums require not just rules, but good rules. A lack of rules promotes chaos, too many rules stifle discussion.

But the way things are set up right now, you have to have three separate forums to discuss silver-gelatin pinhole photos being developed onto light-sensitive emulsions, silver-gelatin pinhole photos being scanned and printed, and pure digital pinhole photos being processed and printed on computers. For someone who doesn't care if it's analog or digital, as long as it's made with a pinhole, that's a lot of effort to go through to have discussions-- and you can't segue from one to the other, you've got to go to a completely different section of Photrio.

Some people prefer this, because they don't want to accidentally be exposed to digital technology. And while appreciating the irony, I respect that, and don't want to drive those people off, but I think we'd be better off as a discussion forum by filtering unwanted content, rather than segregating it.

But that's just my opinion, and it may not be worth the electrons consumed to store and display it.

 

[Foto Ludens]

Once I got reasonably happy with my PH techniques I wanted to share them. That meant they had to be digitized.

Putting a negative on a home scanner with an external light source shining down on it. This is a rather common technique. Unfortunately with 35 mm even the finest scan resolution available to me (2400 dpi), would show scan lines when enlarged to view on the monitor. I switched from 35 mm to 4x5 film which help considerably. Still, occasionally I still could detect some scan lines.

I watch a video on converting 35mm slides to digital with a light board and a digital camera with a close up lens. After making a light board I found I could buy and 9"x12" board used for artist tracing for $13.00, all I needed was a white sheet of plastic to defuse all the tiny little led lights. It is more uniform and brighter than my home made board.

This image is from the scanner.

View attachment 273680


This image is with the Light board. Using the digital camera has far better resolution and contrast.
View attachment 273681
This photo was taken in the woods on a sunny day, at with 200 ISO film and f360 for 60 sec.

I just thought I would add to the tribal knowledge of the board.

Have fun

Thanks for sharing this! I would not have considered a light board for this (though for my current uses a scanner is proving good enough). It's a good tidbit of knowledge to keep in the back of my mind.

Incidentally, being a bit an APUG old timer (I've recently returned after 10-15 years away), I'm sad to see that the climate here is still so hostile. There's nothing like a community that continuously mourns its imminent death (it's doing it now, and did it back in the day) while being hostile to newcomers...

 

[Adrian Bacon]

At the same time, I understand the concern that digital will continue to pervade, and some people are opposed to that.

in my sometimes not so humble opinion, those that fail to recognize reality often get ignored. There is nothing wrong with wanting a place for analog only discussion, and having sections for each, but that should come with at least the recognition that digital does exist, and sometimes you need digital to have that analog discussion. Many members here recognize that, but I’ve noticed a number of positions taken in my time here that don’t seem to, or at least don’t indicate that they do, which is a real shame because I’m sure if those members were willing, they could really add value there.

 

[PhilBurton]

What he said. ^ ^ ^ ^

 

[BrianShaw]

What he said. ^^^